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Speaker 5:
This is as good as it gets.

Speaker 1:
Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
It is 2023 and we are back on the airways. AMI audio, The Neutral Zone on YouTube, and of course, your favourite podcast platform. We are everywhere. And one of my favourite things to do is bring up a topic on my co-host that they have no idea what we're about to talk about off the top of the show, but it is sports related. But before we do that, I'll introduce you to the co-hosts that are alongside me. For today, let's start with [inaudible 00:00:59] Cameron. Happy new year.

Cameron:
Happy New Year, Brock, Josh. Yeah, it was a good couple of weeks off. It seems like it was a lot longer than a couple weeks off, but it's good to be back in the zone and talking some sports.

Brock Richardson:
Yes, I do agree. And Josh Watson is also with us. Josh, happy New Year.

Josh Watson:
Year. Happy New Year to you as well, gentlemen. I agree with Cameron, it's been one very long feeling time off, but it's great to be back. I think it's because there was so much that went on during the time that we've been away, but I'm sure we're going to get to all of that, or at least whatever we can. But yeah, great holiday, aside from a little blizzard action in southwestern Ontario over Christmas, but we eventually got to get the family together and it's always fun. We have a new nephew in the family, so he's less than a year old and everything is brand new, so it was fun watching him and getting to spend time with him. So lots of fun today.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, it's cool watching very, very young ones be almost like a brand new slate. And we forget sometimes that we have to learn those things that we do in life that we sometimes take for granted and it's cool watching young ones investigate things for the first time and experienced things and it's cool. So I remember when both my niece and nephews were of young age and it was cool just watching their eyes light up and oh, I can do this or that, whatever the case is. So that's very cool, and awesome to hear that you got some time together with your family, as did I as well.
I told you guys that I was going to bring something up off the top, and that is that I saw that the one and the only Bill Belichick at the age of 70 is apparently returning to the New England Patriots next season. He's going to be having a meeting with owner, Robert Craft, talking about next season. For one, are you guys surprised? And two, are we ever going to see Bill Belichick retire? Because it feels like to me, no we're not. Josh, start with you.

Josh Watson:
I think if we ever saw Bill Belichick retire, you and I would've made a very, very bad deal with some entity somewhere, to be quite honest. I feel like he's just never going to leave. At first, I thought it was because he just wanted to keep on winning, now I think it's a matter of, he just missed the playoffs for only the fifth time in his tenure, and wants to prove that in fact, it is not that he had Tom Brady that made him so successful, that he can do it with any quarterback. So I'm not entirely surprised to see that he is coming back for another kick at the can, so to speak.

Cameron:
Yeah, at the end of the day, I think he's a lifer, and I think I'm going to retire before Bill Belichick retires, to be quite honest with you. So I just think he's a lifer and I think that he's going to always be involved with football in one way, shape, or form. And I think Josh is right, he also wants to show that it's not just because of Brady why they won all the Super Bowls, it's because of him and his schemes and his playmaking that he devises in his room like an evil madman. So I think that, yeah, he's going to keep going until Croft kicks him out.

Brock Richardson:
It's funny when you think about Bill Belichick because you love to hate him and you love to respect him all at the same time. He's done so well in everything he's done, but man, when you just hear those press conferences and he can be just so short sometimes, you ask yourself... Well I ask myself, it's like, why are you still here if you're so grumpy and grouchy? And then you read things like today and it's like, I'm coming back. And he just reminds me of a grandpa on their lawn telling people to get off their lawn at times, and then that's just Bill Belichick to me. But I do respect everything he's done. Josh.

Josh Watson:
I was just going to say, short is a bit of an understatement. I think he could do an entire press conference in one breath if he really wanted to. For sure.

Cameron:
And some people are just like that, are just ornery and not very nice to speak to as far as the media's concerned, because there's so many media people as well as players, they just don't want to talk to the media because they think it's a waste of time. So yeah, he's going to be back and he's going to be grumpy as ever next year.

Brock Richardson:
Absolutely. Good old Bill Belichick, grumpy bear that he is, but he has been successful. Something we've been successful at is our headlines. Let's do the first of 2023.

Speaker 1:
Neutral zone headlock. Headlock.

Cameron:
A big congratulations goes out to Team Canada after winning the gold medal with a thrilling three, two overtime victory over Czechia at the 2023 World Junior Hockey Championships. This marks the first time since 2009 that any team has repeated as champion of the tournament. The last one to do so was Team Canada. I think it was a wonderful tournament, I had lots of fun watching it and I think the resilience of the Canadian team really showed through. And especially, I believe Milton Milick, the goaltender. He was phenomenal in the past couple games of the playoffs. And what can you say about Bedard? Oh man, he's going to be great in the NHL.

Brock Richardson:
Can you say generational player? That's what I would say about Connor Bedard. A scary incident took place at the Monday night football game between the Cincinnati Bangles and the Buffalo Bills, which saw Damar Hamlin, safety for the Buffalo Bills, tackle T. Higgins in what initially seemed to be a normal football play. We saw Hamlin get up from this tackle, and then subsequently collapse on the field. He was then carted off to a hospital in Cincinnati where he has remained ever since. The most positive thing is that his charity in 24-hour span raised more than 3.5 million dollars, and it has far surpassed that today. And I have to be honest with you and say that the incident was very scary, I wasn't sure that we were going to see Damar Hamlin play football, and it was great to see him supporting his team ahead of the Sunday football game, and they ran it back for a touchdown on the very first play of the game, it was almost poetic. May you get better soon, Mr. Hamlin.

Josh Watson:
For the first time in more than 60 years, a prestigious peewee hockey tournament called the Quebec International Peewee Hockey Tournament will have a division for girls hockey teams. The tournament, being held in Quebec City at the Videotron Center, began in 1960 to coincide with the Quebec Winter Carnival, and has been a place where NHL greats like Wayne Gretzky and Gordie Howe have participated. The tournament raises funds for the local Patro Roc-Amadour Foundation. I think this is a great step towards inclusion and just broadening the game of hockey for everyone who wants to play, and I am very, very excited to see this kind of progress being made in the world of hockey.

Brock Richardson:
Those are your headlines for this week. Let's check on our Twitter poll questions. If we go way back to 2022, we asked you the following question, how do you think Canada will fare at this year's World Junior Hockey Championship? Well, it seems the listeners nailed it. They said 50% gold, 33% bronze, 9% no medal, 8% silver. This week's question is one that we're going to dive into at the end of the program. Given the Damar Hamlin incident, does that change your desire to watch NFL football? Yes, no, still processing. You may cast your votes at our Twitter handles coming at you right now.

Speaker 1:
And welcome back to the Neutral Zone AMI broadcast booth. And we are set to get this ballgame underway. The first pitch proxy by Brock Richardson's Twitter account, @neutralzonebr. First pitch strike and hey gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan for the Neutral Zone. Find her at Neutral Zone CB and there's a swing in a chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base out for a routine out and fans there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from the Neutral Zone, @neutralzonecamj and @jwatson200. Now that's a winning combination. And this organ interlude is brought to you by AMI Audio on Twitter. Get in touch with the Neutral Zone. Type in @amiaudio.

Brock:
One of the cool things about doing a show like this one is that you get to from time to time pick a topic to discuss. And if I recall when we picked this topic a while ago, it was one of the topics that someone Cam Jenkins knew and he suggested as a listener for us to debate this topic and we now have an opportunity to do so. And the topic that we're going to talk about is the idea of inclusion in parasports and the Olympics and Paralympics particularly. And right now the Olympics and Paralympics are separated by about a 10 to 12 day span and they take the time to reconfigure some of the village and they add ramps where need to be added, more accessibility for individuals who have low vision and all of those things. And so that does take a bit of time. But hey Cameron, I'll start with you on this one because you can sort of shed a bit of light in this. But can you tell us a little bit of where this idea came from, from a listener that you recall and we'll start there.

Cameron:
Yeah, I believe it was the listener Dave [inaudible 00:02:24] and he was just curious as to why the Olympics and Paralympics aren't inclusive like being together. And to be quite honest with you, I think it's a great idea to be able to get more exposure for the Paralympics if you were to have a couple of races, just using track and field as an example, to be able to have a couple of races of able-bodied and then have a couple of races of wheelchair athletes or the amputees or whatever the case is. And I don't know if you could do it with everything because I'm just trying to think... For ice hockey as an example, I don't think you could really do that because with the picks they take out so much of the ice.
So if you had one game of the women's hockey and then the mid-game afternoon game was like a sledge hockey and then the men's game would say at nighttime or something like that, I don't know if you could do it in that particular case because you'd be taking so much of the ice out with the picks. But I definitely do think that you can do it with some of the events. And the one that comes off top of mind would be the track events and maybe even some of the field events, although you have to strap people in. So I think with some events it certainly is possible, but other events I think you'd have to have them on separate days or at separate times.

Brock:
Josh.

Josh:
It's an interesting idea having been to national championships through track and field which are integrated here in Canada. The issue I tend to find with it is that even though we say we're inclusive, the para events are almost always at certain times early in the event or early in the week like weekdays for example. Whereas the marquee events, if you will, as I make air quotes with my fingers, are reserved for the Friday, Saturday, Sunday of the event when more people are available not at work, what have you. So that would be my only concern is making sure that the para events did get primetime viewing so to speak. I think it's a very interesting idea. Just with the modifications that need to be made to venues and to villages and just the logistics of putting on a joint event. I don't know how feasible it would be to be quite honest.

Brock:
I'll give you some real-world, real-life experience of what it is like, that transition period between the Olympics and Paralympic games. As I mentioned, it's about a 12-day process and we arrived at London in 2012 and we were all excited. They were talking about how this was going to be such a modern look of a village and it's going to be great and it's going to be wonderful and all those things. Well the first day of arrival for the teams, we learned that some individuals from various countries were unable to get to their room. Why you ask? Because the elevator was broken, which was newly installed into this village when building it. So it's not a case of a situation where it was an ancient elevator and they were just waiting for the day that it broke down and whatever. This was a brand-new elevator that wasn't working in one of the buildings.
So then that meant that you shifted... And I hate to put it this way, but I have no other choice. You shifted priority to who gets what room based on need and based on accessibility. So that in and of itself caused an entire nightmare and myself and a teammate were involved directly in this, we could not get to our room. And so their solution at the time was for us to stay in one of the ground floor condos of the apartment, which sounded really good and was really sort of a good idea. No elevator except when we got into the village we learned that we had no bathroom because the plumbing was not done in our section of the building. We also learned that the bedroom was not done because there was some damage done at the Olympic Games prior to this in the venue.
And so we couldn't use the room and so where did we have to sleep, in the living room of this place. Which they made a really nice situation, they made a really nice scenario where you could literally do this, but it was just the thought was sort of... Not afterthought, but it was like, oh my god, the elevator's not working. And it was almost like they didn't have a backup plan. And so that would be my concern. The idea on paper is good, but can we put it in practicality when you only have got 12 days, Josh, to put this thing together and you can't miraculously manufacture a new elevator to put in the spot.

Cameron:
But that can happen at any point in time. Brock, that could have happened during the Olympics as well. The only thing is if it happens during the Olympics, other people can walk up the stairs and take other rooms. So I don't see that being a problem for all events not being able to be inclusive. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt that the elevator was down, but I don't know if that would happen every Paralympics or every Olympics where the elevator is down. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

Josh:
Yeah, absolutely. But I think the biggest issue is just logistics. When you consider how many athletes are involved in an Olympics and then you add on the number of athletes that are involved in a Paralympics. I mean I'm pretty sure Brock you may know better than I do, but I want to say there's probably a hundred athletes from Canada that go and if you multiply that by 30 some, 50 some countries in the world, that's a whole mass of humanity that you've gone in one place at one time and it's already logistically challenging to get people where they need to go through the traffic of the city and feed them all and house them all.

Cameron:
Yeah. But I think that as well when you're looking at a city that always, whether it's Toronto or pick a city, they're always talking about there's not enough affordable housing. So why not have everybody there at once and then be able to build even more buildings for accessible housing, not to mention affordable housing? Because that's where it is all in the world, they're talking about that. So that would be a great way to build a couple more buildings for more affordable housing.

Brock:
And that's exactly how they used the Toronto 2015 Village was they used it as condos and they've done that in years past. And I know that our guest that's scheduled for next week, Patrick Anderson, and I believe also... Although I would have to correct this, but I believe also Claire Buchanan at least one time lived in one of those condos that was made. But I know for sure Patrick Anderson did as well, which is great because then you can say, well it's already accessible enough because they used it for para and the conventional games as well as they do. And so there are positive things. I just think Cameron, although there's many pros, I think the logistic... And something that no one's brought up yet is okay, but the games are, in the case of the Olympics, the games are three weeks and then the games for the Paralympics is about 12 days. So just to do that alone, to mix and mingle both sports together would mean adding days would mean people needing more time-

Cameron:
Well, you'd have to do it over the course of a month.

Brock:
Yeah, you would.

Cameron:
Rather than three weeks. And what's wrong with that?

Brock:
Yeah, that's true. I guess if you did it over the month... Yeah, that's the other thing, it's the cost.

Josh:
Somebody has to pay to build those buildings, pay for that food.

Cameron:
I think there are benefits. No, absolutely. But I think that they can actually do that and be able to pay for those buildings to go up because if they're already building an apartment building, well what's wrong with making it a bit taller or a bit wider to fit some more accommodations in there. And then you have affordable housing and then eventually that will be paid back, especially for the housing because you're going to have people renting it or buying it and so you're going to be able to make the money that way. As for the actual housing part of things, I think you would make an eventual profit on that because that's something that you would be paying rent or a mortgage on.

Brock:
Right. But all of those expenses... And I know this as we're discussing it, all of those expenses take time to make that money back. And so for a while you are... But you can say that about any village that's being made. That's just the way it is and it's the way of the world.

Cameron:
With villages now what they're doing is that once it's over, they're deconstructing it a lot of times as well. They may do that in... I think it was in Russia where they ended up deconstructing it as well. And so then you can put more houses or more condos there. So I don't know, I just really think that you can make that work by first and foremost having it inclusive but also being able to make a profit on it if done the right way.

Brock:
And I agree with that. I think to your point about the dismantling parts of the village in 2008, competing at the games, it was a very high-tech village, it was very modern for 2008 and it was good and the Bird's Nest was such a wonderful spectacle of an event. And then we went back in 2010 for the World Championships in which we had to use one of the venues that was used during the games and we went back and some of the people said that the infrastructure of the buildings was suffering because very much largely the buildings just weren't being used as much as they wanted them to be.
And so Beijing in 2020 when it was scheduled originally was really well revived, but when we went back two years later, it was like what happened here? This was a popping place and now these venues are just sitting there and they were one of the first countries to roll the water cube into a different city so that it can be used there as well. And it's interesting to see how technology can evolve, but at the same time when the event is particularly used for the timeframe and then all of a sudden you go, okay, now we have nothing that can be a problem too, Cam.

Cameron:
At the end of the day I want it to be a lot more inclusive. And if it ends up being, if it's already three weeks, what's an extra week to fit in the Paralympic events and to be able to have some of those in prime time or part of the Olympics where you know have swimmers and then you have one heat of swimmers and then you put a heat of parasport swimmers in there and being able to do that and be all in prime time, one right after the other. Yes, it's going to take a bit longer because you have the para swimmers in there, but they would be included in this and that would show a lot more inclusivity. I think that you would get a really good appreciation between the able-bodied people and the para-athletes talking and reminiscing. And I just think it would be a great experience for everybody to learn about one another and to really promote parasports.

Brock:
And having something in common with each other because sport does nothing more than just say we have something in common. We are like-minded as athletes, we are competing for the same common goal. All of those things can be true. And I think that that's the really good side of this. It would be tough. I would wonder though, if you're looking at it in the sense of let's just say for argument's sake, the NHL went back to the Olympics, then that's good, but then you're going to have to tell stars in the NHL, hey look, you're going to have to postpone your season for that much longer. And we already know Josh, how difficult that can be in today's world, let alone adding another event or more events on top of that.

Josh:
Absolutely. You're asking... First and foremost, Cam, I totally agree with you. It would be wonderful to be fully inclusive. But as you say, Brock, when you're asking a league to shut itself down for an extra two weeks, potentially, they're not going to do that. They're just not. There's too much money at stake. And again, you have to go back to, you've got to house all these athletes for that extra period of time. You've got to feed all those athletes for that extra period of time because the athletes may not be paying for their meals, but somebody is, whether it's that organizational committee or whatever.
And I look at a country like Greece when Athens held the Olympics and Paralympics, they're still paying for it, I think. All these many decades later, it practically bankrupted the country to ask them to take on even more infrastructure. I wish it were possible, I just don't think it is because land is too valuable. There's an old expression that you can't make more land. Well, I mean some countries are trying to prove otherwise over in the Middle East, but otherwise the value of the land is just too expensive to put a larger building on it. And again, it's just [inaudible 00:18:23].

Cameron:
In some cases that's right. I don't disagree with you in some cases, but I think what the Olympics needs to do now as well is to keep going back to the places that have already built because they used to have a stipulation where they wanted to build new buildings and so on and so forth, but now with the Olympics, they're going back to places that they've been before because the infrastructure's already there. And I think if you break it down, yes, for some countries they've lost a lot of money on it, but I think that's because they had to build the infrastructure to get it to there.
But then there's other things like housing. I think that short-term pain for long-term gain, if they do build something, eventually it will get paid off because you're paying, like I said, mortgages or rent payments and being able to pay it back that way. And for hockey, yeah, no, you'd have to get the NHL players to play and then the para hockey afterwards. Because as I mentioned before, you're picking the ice and you're totally torturing the ice and the NHL players won't want that. So in that particular case, they may play the first two weeks and then the para ice hockey players would play the next two weeks

Brock:
Ask GFC how they feel about the Toronto Argonauts being on their field and that's on their soccer field. But I digress, we're not going to go down that road. But that's the first thing that crossed my mind when you brought that up. The other thing that I sort of want to bring up is what about the idea of having the Special Olympics and Paralympics combined together? Does that change... Obviously you're not talking the same number of athletes for the Special Olympics as you are the Olympic Games? Would that be a place where we could almost start this or do you guys not like the idea? Josh.

Josh:
I wouldn't have a problem with it personally. I just think that the two groups so to speak... And I don't know this for a fact, but I believe that there's something where the two groups have chosen to be separate. I do know for a fact that in parasport there is a class 20 to 29 which is for intellectual disability. So it is possible for persons with intellectual disabilities to compete in parasport. I believe the Special Olympics decided to make themselves a separate entity at some point. But I do think that is a great place to start. Absolutely. And get some more exposure for both groups.

Brock:
And I do want to say that last I known, yes, the Special Olympics had decided to make themselves a separate entity, which kind of made the parasport and the Special Olympics committees kind of be a little bit at odds, a little bit difference of opinion. Because I think that was the initial we wanted it to be together. And then one sort of decided that no, they wanted to be a separate entity, which I have zero problem with. But I think that both sides would benefit greatly, Cameron, from having the games in one location and that would be a place to start.

Cameron:
Yeah, I have no problem with the two being together at the same time during the Paralympics and Special Olympics. And a lot of people, they don't know the difference. Because I have had a lot of people talk to me over the years saying, oh, are you part of the Special Olympics? And it's like, no, it's the Paralympics. So yeah, I have no problem with it personally, but I just don't know how that's going to get more exposure for us having those two events together compared to if you were to have the Special Olympics and the Olympics together or the Paralympics and the Olympics together. I think that would get more exposure for either the Paralympics or the Special Olympics, whomever chooses to go at the same time.

Brock:
I absolutely don't disagree that I'm not sure that it would get the same value from a profit perspective per se, if you want to put it that way. I'm just talking more as a, is this a starting ground? And part of the problem with the relationship, and I've been involved in it for many, many years, the initial reaction when someone comes up to you and says, are you involved in the Special Olympics? The initial reaction is like to what Josh did in the background. No, because the difference is not really understood in the general public. And I think that's sort of not fair to either community that the difference is not explained and said. I think the Special Olympics is as valued as the Paras. I just think there needs to be more of an understanding as to what the difference is to the general public. Josh.

Josh:
I agree with you to a point. The issue... And I have no issue with the Special Olympics, let me be clear, but I think there is a perception issue with the Special Olympics in that the Special Olympics tends to be seen more, right, wrong, or indifferent as more of a good for you, you're competing in an event. Whereas hopefully the Paralympics is seen as if I say it this way more legitimate. I don't like to use that because that's not accurate, but it's how it's perceived. And I think that's why you see para-athletes or Paralympians kind of react that way. That there's this misconception that the Special Olympics is somehow a different type of sports and it's not the same when really it is. I don't know if that made any sense whatsoever.

Cameron:
And I see what you're trying to say. I just think that at the end of the day, we... I think a lot of people with Paralympics too and the way able-bodied see Paralympic athletes, it's kind of a, oh gosh, way to go look at what they're doing. They've had to overcome so much plus they're doing this on top of that. And it's like, we put our pants on the same way anyone else does at the end of the day or exactly, we put our shirt on...
So it's not a big extra thing for us to train, more than an Olympic athlete, because Olympic athletes, they get maybe a little bit more money from the funds they get through the Canadian government, but that's not enough to live on for Olympic athletes either, just as the same as Paralympic athletes. So we all put our shoes on the same way, our pants, our shirts, whether it's Special Olympics, Paralympics or Olympics. And hopefully that's what we're here to do is to have these conversations to let people know, hey, at the end of the day we're all the same. At the end of the day.

Josh:
We're all athletes, we all train the same.

Cameron:
Exactly. And we might train a bit differently or whatever, but show us some respect or yeah, don't think that we're just a charity case at the end of the day because we're not.

Brock:
Yeah, and I think the initial reaction of people in the parasport community that go to the Paralympic games is no, these are held at the same venues as the Olympics and so that is the piece that we as para-athletes hold onto. But I think sometimes we forget, but they're still playing the same sport as we are and it doesn't mean it's any greater value, any less value, any other kind of value just because we're holding it at the same venues. Yeah, it's cool To say that I participated in the same venue as fencing did in the Olympic Games, but at the end of it all, there's no bocce that's compared to in the Olympics versus the Paralympics.
So to me, it's like I'm doing something completely different that doesn't equate to something in a sport that is comparable to the Olympics. Having said that, I can sort of imagine that the difference would be that when you're talking para ice hockey versus conventional hockey, they are playing in the exact same venue as their brother or sister organization. So yes, that is something that you grasp onto and you can say, look, this is what we're doing, this is how this is. But as we point out over and over again, it doesn't matter what your challenge is in life. If you want to play in sports, you play in sports. Josh, you were doing an awful lot of nodding during what I was saying. So I'll let you kind of go on that point as well.

Josh:
Yeah, I think that there is a bit of legitimacy I guess that is provided when you say, oh yeah, I competed in my event at the Ice Palace or at the Cube or whatever, the same venue as the Olympians. I've had many people who find out that I play ice hockey say to me, oh that's cool, that's that thing I saw on the Olympics, right? It's like, well yes it is kind of the same type of sport but it's played in the same venue, same ice. And that's how they get introduced to parasport.

Brock:
Because people in society want to gravitate towards something they know, towards something, they can literally say this, I can get my hands on this, I can understand this, I can do, for me to explain bocci, I still have to use a conventional sport for people to sort of kind of-ish understand it. And my response is always, yeah, it's like curling without the ice because that's the closest conventional sport that we can come up with. Most other sports have another sport that they can literally grab onto with the public and say, these are the different rules and this has been proven.
If you put parasport on television, people will come watch it. It is literally a thing where you say, well, to one of those executives to try to tell them to do the same when they could say, well I'd rather put on this X sport, whatever versus the parasport. Well, it's been proven that people come to the Paralympic sports and want to watch it. That's why CBS, NBC have increased their time on the television because they're not just doing it for fun because they're getting something from it.

Cameron:
But a lot of that's online. It's not necessarily on the TV. It might be on the TV. I remember before they had a one-hour highlight show on CBS for the Paralympics and then I think they had maybe a couple of hours and one was at 11 o'clock at night or whatever it was after the national or whatever. Because you don't want to give up the national. That's hardcore Canadian news, come on, you can't give that up. But a lot of it now is online and if that's what it is for now, until we can get more exposure, then that's what we need to do.
And the perfect way to do it, whether it's Special Olympics or Paralympics, is have it part of the Olympics and then have, like I said before, have the one race that's the hundred-meter race which everybody watches and then you can have the hundred-meter wheelchair race right after it or just before. Have it actually just before because a lot of people will want to come in a bit early and so have it just before and then you'll see a lot more people maybe gravitate towards Paralympics and or Special Olympics.

Brock:
I think, Cameron, to your point, I think you have to start with showcasing events as a testament. I think you're absolutely correct in saying that you might want to start it with a hundred-meter running race followed by the wheelchair race, followed by the amputee so that everyone gets an exposure. But to sit here and say, we're just going to blow up and put everybody together, I think that's kind of a scheduling nightmare. And I feel bad for the poorest scheduler that would have to do that, but I do think it starts with, hey, we're going to put this here and we're going to showcase it.

Cameron:
All you got to do is you got to give the person a little bit more money and then they'll be more than happy to schedule it, give them a bit more money and how to run it and then they'll be happy to schedule it. Money talks. Money talks.

Brock:
Money does talk. For sure. You and I had the same thought. Is there anything else in this conversation that we've not gone over that someone has... Something's popped in their mind. What about this? Is there something that we've neglected missed that either of you want to add to? I'll leave the floor open for a couple of seconds to see if anybody has anything to add.

Cameron:
No, I think we've pretty much covered it all. I don't know what you think, Josh.

Josh:
No, I think we've covered everything off, to be honest. It was a good conversation.

Brock:
Yeah, I think it's all about where we start. I think sometimes we want to run before we walk and I don't think that that's an easy thing to do. I think we have to start walking and where the walking has started in my opinion, is increasing the time that CBS, NBC has of the Paralympic games. And maybe let's add the Special Olympics into that as well. Let's not pretend like the Paralympics is on some kind of different pedestal than the Special Olympics because as we've outlined here, sport is sport. So with that, if you want to get ahold of us regarding this conversation or any other we have on the program, here's how you can do it.

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Brock:
As we continue on in our episode of The Neutral Zone here, I want to switch gears in conversation and talk about the Damar Hamlin situation. I don't want to do this in the way of let's rehash what happened. I want to do this in a different way. The way I want to do this is to, first of all, tell you that Damar Hamlin has progressively gotten better and better. The first question he asked was, "Did we win the game?" and that's all well and good. Then the doctors said, "Yeah, you won the game of life," which I outlined in the headlines. Where I want to start this conversation is, does this situation change the way you look at football and or consume football? Cameron, I'll start with you on this one.

Cameron Jenkins:
No, it doesn't affect me in the way I consume football or watch football. There's been plenty of accidents or plays that have happened in the past that hasn't gone well. I did read today where Hamlin, he actually got out of the hospital today and he came back to Buffalo to recover at home. So that's great news that he's actually get out of the hospital considering how it happened. So no, it doesn't matter to me that that happened. You don't want to try to protect the players as much as possible, but for that particular play, I'm pretty sure that if you went over the video of a lot of games, that same hit has probably happened and nothing has happened. It was a freak accident. I think it's the responsibility of the NFL and maybe even the two teams involved to see if there's anything that could be done differently. Maybe there's a different way to tackle. Maybe there's something that they can do differently so that doesn't happen again, but any sport that you're going to play that involves contact, once in a while, people are going to get hurt, unfortunately.

Josh Watson:
I think that for me, all it did was make me more cognizant of the fact that this is a violent sport. We sit there and we watch and we put that thought to the back of our minds that someone's life could change with one hit. Well, unfortunately, this time, it was brought to the forefront and it was scary. I had friends who are not sports fans and even my girlfriend asking me, "This is all over the news, what happened?" So you then be the bridge into sport from out of sports, so to speak, and you try and just let them know what happened and try to give them updates if they're not following it. But for me, it's not going to change whether I watch the Bills and Dolphins this weekend. I'm still a Dolphins fan. I'm still going to cheer for my Dolphins.
It's the same as when Tua Tagovailoa had his series of concussions earlier this season. It's scary and I feel for him. In this whole situation, the only thing I wanted was for Damar Hamlin to get out of the hospital alive, in one piece, and to be able to live his life. I did not care whether he was able to play another down of football because when it comes right down to it, he's a human being and he nearly died. Let's not mince words, he nearly died. To your point, Cameron, I know we want to try and make these games as safe as we can and all the rest of it, but as long as you have two bodies running into each other at speed-

Cameron Jenkins:
Colliding.

Josh Watson:
... things are going to happen and I really believe that this was just a one-in-a-billion freak accident.

Cameron Jenkins:
Agreed.

Brock:
Yeah. I think there's been a lot made over the last eight days, if you're listening to this on the first day of release, but there's been a lot made on scheduling and should the Cincinnati Bengals, Buffalo Bills been played. There's been a lot of this. I think the way that I'm going to say this is that I know that humanity needed to win over here. Humanity needed to win over. Humanity needed to be the front of everybody's mind versus a football game. We are a sports show. We love talking about football games. Josh and I are at odds from teams that we support. We love the fact that the Dolphins and Bills are going to play each other this weekend, but when it's all said and done, it's about the people, and I think the NFL did this as fairly as possible.
For those of you that don't know, the way this is going to work is that there will be a neutral site situation if the Kansas City Chiefs, Buffalo Bills, and Cincinnati Bengals are involved in this AFC Championship Game just because the records are askew because of not playing this game. The NFL took a lot of criticism at first about not playing this game, but I think the general public realized humanity had to win over here, Cameron.

Cameron Jenkins:
Yeah. The NFL, they took a lot of flack when it was happening because apparently the NFL said, "Okay, after he was off the field, you have five minutes to warm up and then we're going to play the game." There were reports of that happening, but cooler heads prevailed and they didn't end up playing the game, which I think was the right decision, because like you said, it's about humanity at the end of the day. Not playing the game, I think that was the fairest way to do it as well, is to have a neutral sight. Just as a side note, you mentioned about how somebody here is a Bills fan and how somebody here is a Dolphins fan. I'm really looking forward to next week's episode of The Neutral Zone to find out, well, who won the game and how that conversation's going to go.

Brock:
It'll be interesting because if the Dolphins win, one, Josh Watson will not be on the episode and if the Bills win, I'll still be on the episode or lose because that's just the way I roll in my juvenile ways to work this out.

Cameron Jenkins:
If the Bills win, I don't think Brock should be allowed on the show either then if Josh isn't allowed on the show.

Josh Watson:
I think [inaudible 00:07:28].

Cameron Jenkins:
Well, between Claire, you and I, we can host it. We've done it before.

Josh Watson:
Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll see.

Brock:
For those listeners out there, that is not the way I'm going to do my algorithm for next week's episode. I am totally in jest in saying this, but it will be fun. Again, I think the NFL made the best decision it could. Cameron, to your point, I'm not actually sure even though that was reported on, because then I started to hear afterwards that that was never actually said in the stadium about the five-minute warm-up situation, so I don't know. Although the public heard it, I'm not necessarily sure if that was actually a thing that was announced. Honestly, I would say that the Buffalo Bills coach and the Cincinnati Bengals coach and all the staff, they all deserve Coach of the Year this year because of how they handled the off-the-field scenario that nobody knew how to manage this from a humanity point and I think both coaching staff deserve a lot of credit.
To me, if I'm voting on Coach of the Year, which I'm not that much of a pundit, I don't have that much privilege, but if I'm voting, I'm voting both of those staff. To me, I'm making history in saying, this is the thing we're going to do and that's it. Josh, any final thoughts?

Josh Watson:
Just that I think, as we were talking about scheduling in the last segment, this highlights a need for a buffer week, so to speak. Because if we had a week between the end of the regular season and the playoffs, then I think we could have made up that game. Because by this point in the week, Buffalo knows that Damar's okay and Cincinnati knows that Damar's okay, so it's a lot easier to play the game and that would alleviate all of these problems. Having said that, I agree, the best decision was made that could have been made and now we move forward and see how the chips fall. I can promise you that Brock and I will still be friends after next week's game. It'll be a little dicey for a couple of hours, that's all.

Cameron Jenkins:
Ooh.

Brock:
I agree. To me, there was one simple solution that could have taken place in my almost 32 years of living. I have never watched a Pro Bowl. I think you could have foregone the Pro Bowl and pushed everything back one week and that would've been that, all said and done. But that's my easy solution sitting here as my armchair version of Roger Goodell as we finish the program. That is the end of our show for this week. I would like to thank Josh Watson, Cam Jenkins. I'd also like to thank our technical producer, Marc Aflalo, and our podcast coordinator is Ryan Delehanty. We'll be back next week. Until then, be safe. Be well.