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From AMI Central.

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Now circling in The Neutral Zone.

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Here's a pitch on the way.

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36 yards for the win.

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This.

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Here comes the big chance, the shot.

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Is this the [inaudible 00:00:18]? The Neutral Zone.

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Home run. Good.

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This is as good as it gets.

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Now here's your host, two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
The beautiful thing about this show is that we're all friends and sometimes we have to clarify things in each script because in some ways that I write things, it works in my head, but then when others read it, they go, "But what about this?" Then I go, "Yeah, that works out." So just the example for today, we're going to have Patrick Anderson joining us who is a five-time Paralympian in the sport of wheelchair basketball. One of the questions off the top is going to be, well, the way I wrote it was, how did you get involved in para-athletics? One Josh Watson said to me, "Did Patrick Anderson do track and field?" I said, "No. What I meant was para-athletics as a whole." In his mind, he sees that as parasports and I was looking at the broader para-athletics. So this is the beautiful thing about three different people reading the script. Well, two ways because I was outvoted by one Claire Buchanan as well, who said, "Yeah, I view this the same way."
So that tells you exactly a little bit of what went on inside the walls here at The Neutral Zone. You are indeed tuned in to the latest program. Let's bring in our co-host, one Josh Watson. Josh, how are you?

Josh Watson:
I am doing well, Brock. It was an exciting weekend of football and other sports as well. Lots to talk about, I'm sure. A busy week coming up with the London Blizzard Invitational Sledge Hockey Tournament next weekend where one of our guests, Stacey Quirk, is actually going to be competing in the C division. Perhaps I will get a chance to actually enjoy watching one of her games if the schedule works out properly, but-

Brock Richardson:
[inaudible 00:02:27].

Josh Watson:
... I think my coach would prefer me to focus on my games first, so I'll do that.

Brock Richardson:
You got to make the coaches happy.

Josh Watson:
Unfortunately sometimes, yes.

Brock Richardson:
Yes. Also, as I'm saying this, I'm like, are you also participating in the London Blizzards event as one Claire Buchanan [inaudible 00:02:48]?

Claire Buchanan:
Yes, I will also be there with the Durham Steelhawks. I'm in the B division, but yes, Josh, I am so excited to see a group from Great Britain. They're competing for the first time. For some of them, that'll be their first games experiences, so it's going to be a fun weekend of hockey. Also, happy belated birthday, Brock.

Josh Watson:
Yes.

Brock Richardson:
Thank you. Yes. I was joking with Marc Aflalo and I said, "I woke up on Sunday morning and I was like, 'Well this is what 32 feels like,'" and it was heartburn and indigestion that took a hold of me Sunday morning. So welcome to 32 life. That's what-

Claire Buchanan:
Yeah. Welcome, welcome.

Josh Watson:
Yeah. Welcome to the age where you're going to start waking up and going, how did I sleep wrong?

Claire Buchanan:
Yeah. My back hurts just from sleeping eight or nine hours. What?

Josh Watson:
Yeah, back neck, and shoulders. Yeah.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. Well, thank you very much. It was a great birthday weekend. I spent some time in Mississauga and I played a little blackjack and came home with a little bit of extra money in my pocket, so I'm pretty excited about that. But it is time to get into our headlines for this week, so let's do it.

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Neutral Zone Headlines. Headlines. Headlines.

Claire Buchanan:
The Women's Under 18 Hockey Championships have come to an end and Canada has gone back to back with gold with a win over Sweden with a 10-0 result. The bronze medal went to team USA after they took the bronze medal with a 5-0 victory over Finland. It's great to see on both the men's side and the women's side that the game is closing the gaps, not between Canada and the U.S., but the rest of the world too. It's nice to see the growth of the sports outside of North America.

Brock Richardson:
I honestly had to do an extra scroll and say to myself, did I read that right, it's Canada versus Sweden? And yes, in fact, it was. Congratulations, as you well point out. The Georgia Bulldogs won the College Bowl after they thumped TCU 65 to seven. This marks the second straight year they have won the championship. A lot of real avid college football fans say that this game was a disgrace. There was a social media video of a fan of the game really going off on college football and their decision-making in this final, it's quite something to behold. Just Google it. Just put in crazy college fan and you'll be able to find it.

Josh Watson:
That was quite an epic video, I have to admit. An interesting situation could occur in the NFL playoffs this year. The NFL announced this week that because of the cancellation of the week 18 game between the Cincinnati Bengals and the Buffalo Bills, there is a chance that the AFC Championship game could be played at a neutral site if the Bills end up meeting the Kansas City Chiefs. The neutral site that they chose, State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona, which also happens to be the site of this year's Super Bowl. This means that the AFC Champion could play back-to-back games at the same venue. I still don't quite understand how we got here to be quite honest. I think there was a way that we could have gotten that Cincinnati-Buffalo game in if we massaged the schedule a little bit, but the NFL made its decision and here we are. I don't know how I would feel if I was the NFC team, but this is where we find ourselves, the AFC champion could play back-to-back games at the same stadium.

Brock Richardson:
Something that was brought to my attention recently on this was that why is this week's game between the Cincinnati Bengals and Buffalo Bills not being played at a neutral site? The answer that I came up with, because if Cincinnati won that game, then they would've been ahead of the Buffalo Bills. The answer that I came up with, whether right, wrong or indifference was the following, that because the NFL feels that they gave the Cincinnati Bengals the win over the Baltimore Ravens with that game, they then won their division, which is the "advantage" for the Cincinnati Bengals. I happen to disagree. I also think this game should be played at a neutral site. Fair is fair. Those are your headlines for this week. Let's go back and take a look at our Twitter poll question from last week, which was, given the Damar Hamlin incident, does that change your desire to watch football?
90% of you said no. 10% of you said yes. No votes were cast for I'm still processing. Did you watch the Women's Under 18 Hockey Championship, is this week's question and your answers are yes, no, I didn't even know it was on. Cast your votes at our Twitter handle. Wait for it coming at you right now.

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Welcome back to The Neutral Zone, AMI broadcast booth.

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Play ball.

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We are set to get this ball game underway. The first pitch brought to you by Brock Richardson's Twitter account @neutralzonebr.

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[inaudible 00:08:39].

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First pitch strike. Hey gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan for The Neutral Zone. Find her @NeutralZoneCB. There's a swing of the chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base for a routine out. And fans, there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from The Neutral Zone, @NeutralZoneCamJ and @JWatson200. Now that's a winning combination. This Oregon interlude is brought to you by AMI-audio on Twitter. Get in touch with The Neutral Zone. Type in @AMIaudio.

Brock Richardson:
Our guest today is wheelchair basketball star, Patrick Anderson. Patrick has been to five Paralympic games, including the most recent game in Tokyo. He joins us now from New York to chat all about his wonderful career. Patrick, thanks so much for joining us today. It's lovely to have you on.

Patrick Anderson:
Thanks for having me. Nice to meet you, guys.

Josh Watson:
It's great to meet you as well. Can we start by talking a little bit about how you got involved in parasport?

Patrick Anderson:
Except Claire, I should say. I know Claire.

Josh Watson:
Wow.

Patrick Anderson:
But nice to meet you. How are you, guys? How did I get started in wheelchair basketball? I wasn't born with a disability. I grew up playing hockey and all kinds of things, but when I was nine years old, I was hit by a car. I grew up in Fergus, Ontario, which is not that far from Kitchener-Waterloo. So just a year after my accident, I was invited to a wheelchair sports camp run by the Twin City Spinners and I met some Paralympians like Jeff Penner, and Bruce Russell, guys who ran the Spinners. They identified me as a little kid with some long arms and short legs and potential and passion for sports and took me under their wings and I started playing and I haven't really looked back.

Claire Buchanan:
One of the hardest things to do really in any aspect of life, but sport especially, is to have the longevity of your career be successful, and you've been able to consistently be successful with wheelchair basketball at five Paralympics. What is it about wheelchair basketball that has kept you so engaged for so long?

Patrick Anderson:
That's a good question. I can answer that in a number of different ways. The first thing I would say about longevity is partly, it speaks to just that foundation that I had. I really am grateful and always have been to Jeff and Bruce in those first formative years. Those guys really made it fun, but also pushed me to develop those foundational individual skills that the rest of my career was built upon when I came to actually playing, learning how to play with other players and not only be the best player I could be, but get the most out of my teammates and play great five on five basketball. Part of it was that, being set up with these skill set, not just my right hand but my left hand and being able to be a well-rounded basketball player and launch me with that kind of skillset. I think it just allowed me to enjoy the game on a level in a way, I don't know, that I always kept it fun for me.
And also, I think they set me up also just to enjoy the practice gym and to continue working on things and getting better. I think even though I've taken some breaks from playing competitively or getting after it anyway, I've always played, but playing for the national team, what's always drawn me back and kept me focused in the gym is I enjoyed practicing and I enjoy trying to get better. I say that as a 43-year-old guy who has watched parts of his game just slip away and just wave as I go [inaudible 00:12:30]. But at the same time, I'm grudgingly making peace with that but realizing that there's still other parts of my game, ball handling, finishing, communicating these aspects of my game that I feel like maybe I'll be the last to know, but I feel like I can keep getting better and I enjoy that, the craft of it.
I love that about music. I love that about sports. Just you put in the time and you'll see dividends, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in a week, but eventually and enjoy it. I really am grateful to Jeff and Bruce in those early years with the Twin City Spinners for helping me learn how to enjoy that part of the sport, that approach to sport.

Josh Watson:
Wow. Sorry. An athlete that enjoys practice, that might be a first for me. Now you did mention that you did step away from the game for a little bit and then decided to make a return. I'm wondering if you can walk us through part of your decision-making towards coming back to it.

Patrick Anderson:
I can try. We always see the [inaudible 00:13:34] that's maybe others from the outside, but as far as I could tell, we had a lot of success early on, but it wasn't until 2006 when I'd won World Juniors or we had won World Juniors, won the Paralympics twice at that point. We finally won the World Championships in 2006 and it was like a rubber band that had been stretched really tight suddenly snapped. I didn't realize that that rubber band was quite so tight, but it was like I checked the last box off the list of accomplishments. In some ways, my career is divided between before and after that moment. That was almost 20 years ago now, 15 years ago and I'm still playing. I'm still on the national team. I guess the difference is before that, I felt like I had to play... It was like this was just the trajectory that my life was on. I didn't really have a choice about it, neither did I want to. This is what I did. I was a basketball player. This is what I do. This is the hub around which my life revolves.
Ever since then, it's been more of a choice. It's like, do I want to do this? What am I getting out of this? What am I contributing to this sport? Is this the best thing for me? Is this the best thing for my family? It's been a little bit more of an intentional pursuit and there's a good side of that and also challenging side to that. In 2008, we had a chance to win our third gold medal in a row and we just didn't quite get it done. We finished silver and I finished second, got silver, and I was just a little bit bitter about a lot of things. And it's just all me. The year before, I'd gone back to school and tried jazz guitar and I'd gone from being a highly acclaimed wheelchair basketball player to being the 10th-best guitarist in a class of 10. That was invigorating, on one hand, it was also humbling.
So I enjoyed it for a while, but then when Beijing came around, I decided to go back to the team, but I had one foot in and one foot out. When we finished second, I just thought, I don't want to do this. I don't enjoy this. I'm in or out. And at that time, I was like, oh, I'm out and I end up breaking my wrist and jazz guitar got derailed. But long story short, when London rolled around again, I learned from that experience and I took some time to think about whether I wanted to play. I'd heard that the media attention around the London games was going to be different this time especially because Channel 4 had outbid the BBC and they're like, "BBC, you guys can have the Olympics. We want the Paralympics." So there was this new energy around broadcasting the Paralympics and they're going to put on a great show. I'm like, "Wow, they're going to put on the show. I need to be part of the show."
But it did take a moment to really decide. Am I going to be one foot in, one foot out again or am I going to be all in? Once my life had changed a little bit, I met my wife, we got married, it's like, am I really all in? But once I did and that journey towards London was really, it was hard, but when we finally won in London, it was maybe the most gratifying. That answered more than you asked, but that's what happened. Then after London, it was a similar thing. I took some time off, but then going into Rio, the coach wanted to know well ahead of time what my plans were and I took some time to think about it. By that point, my wife and I started making music together and that's just what my passion was. So I said, "No, not for this one." I left the door open intentionally because I knew I wasn't retiring, but we decided to make some music and lo and behold, we made some kids too.
That wasn't really the plan, but that happened too, so we were making stuff. Anyway, so I took a little break and sat out the Rio quad, but then came back after Rio.

Claire Buchanan:
Seeing all that growth doing so well both on the women's side and the men's side during that time and then seeing that shift of how the Paralympics were viewed through the media and how much exposure they were getting, during that time, what do you think the biggest growth of the games has been from then till now?

Patrick Anderson:
It's hard to say about the games in general. It's such a big thing. My favourite games were Sydney and London, which bookend my medal-winning any part of my career. Hopefully not when all is said and done, but from 2000-2012. But I think on the court, just to narrow maybe the question down, if you don't mind, the game has gotten [inaudible 00:18:21]. I know that the peakiest parts of the game have changed that much. What I mean by that is the best players that I can think of from '96, '98, 2000, I think those guys would still be absolute rock stars in the game right now, but I think everybody has gotten better. I don't know that the ceiling's gotten higher, but the floor has certainly come up, and specifically, I think, with chair skills. I think one of the reasons that we had such success is we were early. Same with the women, I think too before us.
We're fast all the way through our lineup, at least the lineups that gap teams and that's changed in a really cool way. I remember we were in Japan a couple of years ago and I was watching Japan against Great Britain, no, Japan against Australia. Same thing happened in Tokyo, watching the semi-final game, Japan and Great Britain. I was just like, man, oh, man, this is exciting. All 10 guys in the court can push their butts off and it was up and down. The chair skills were out of this world and the basketball skill too. Probably the levels come up, the floor's come up, but all that to say, I want to get back on the podium with these guys, but at the same time, I can take my athlete hat on and put my fan hat on sometimes and be like, man, the sport is in a good place on those days when you see two teams like that square off.
I imagine that's mirrored in some of the other sports too, but that's a little bit of speculation. But yeah, basketball's, it's in some ways, like I said, similar. Some of those stars from the [inaudible 00:19:53] era would still be stars today, but overall, I think everyone's more competitive and you see that in the results. It's not the same three or four teams winning medals. We're going down. In Paris, there's only going to be eight men's teams and eight women's teams, which is in a sense, too bad because there's so many. There's going to be so many great teams that don't even qualify for the Paralympics in 2024 and you couldn't really say that in 2000. You'd say like, well, there's five or six good teams here and then some other teams that are okay, but now, you're just scratching and clawing just to qualify for Paralympics. Anyway, is that answer long enough for you or would you like me to keep talking?

Claire Buchanan:
Hey, we're here for all the information-

Patrick Anderson:
It's less work for you, guys, right,-

Claire Buchanan:
... you want to spit out.

Patrick Anderson:
... if I just blabber on?

Josh Watson:
Absolutely. Now with the positives, we always have to talk about the flip side. Is there anything that you can think of that could be improved with either the game or the Paralympic experience itself?

Patrick Anderson:
Yeah, I don't know. Wheelchair basketball and the IPC, we had a little bit of a public spat over the last few years and some athletes who had been eligible for the Paralympics under a minimal disability category were uninvited to the Paralympics. Without getting into the weeds of why the IPC felt like they had to do that, it did feel like a move in the opposite direction from what I think serves everybody best, which is to be more open, to find a more open framework and paradigm to include more people into the sport. That comes from being a Canadian and growing up in a system where we allow able-bodied people to play. We've figured out this classification system that makes it fair. So once I sit down, we all sit down in our chairs. It's a fair fight and I've benefited from that personally, I think, as an athlete.
I think our Canadian national team and our success, it's not an accident that we succeeded when we did because I think we had all these able-bodied players as teammates and as opponents and as coaches really pushing us and helping us. When I think about our Paralympic medals that we won, I don't think it's just the disabled athletes in Canada. It's those able-bodied athletes that helped us get there. So yeah, I find that a little unfortunate, a move towards really closely identifying or very tightly identifying disability in these silos. If you don't fit in them, you don't fit in the Paralympics. In a sense, I understand why they have to do... Paralympics is an enormous sporting event and you have to... They're the ones who are determining who's eligible and who's not and that's not an easy task. I don't mean to suggest that it is, but I find that a little bit unfortunate and it cuts out some people who otherwise are wonderful athletes and ambassadors for the sport and now they're on the outside looking in. I think it's the wrong direction, but-

Brock Richardson:
We're joined by Patrick Anderson who is a five-time Paralympic athlete in the sport of wheelchair basketball. You're listening to The Neutral Zone. I'm joined by Claire Buchanan and Josh Watson.

Claire Buchanan:
I can only imagine what your trophy room looks like if you do have one. But one of your most recent awards was you were inducted into the Centre Wellington Hall of Fame. Can you talk a little bit about that medal or award specifically and what it means to you?

Patrick Anderson:
Yeah. Like I said, I didn't have a disability growing up. I played hockey and I played against swift and against a lot of great athletes, so it bubble up out of that town. It just means a lot. I know a lot of athletes that haven't... One of my best friends played collegiate volleyball. See, I'm very connected still with my hometown. My parents and some of my siblings still live there. It's a real honour. Actually in the spring, one of my good friends, he's a teacher and in his classroom, they advocated to have the town put up home of Patrick Anderson signs. But because that's a provincial thing, it ended up being the signs were moved closer in town. Anyway, but they got approval for it and so these signs went up. So I was home in the spring and so I was going to drive back to Fergus for an awards thing. Right after the end of my training camp in Toronto and the very last shift of the very last day of camp, 10 minutes before the end of practice, I fell and broke my wrist.
But I was like, "We got to make this thing. All these people are showing up." So I put it in a sling or whatever and we went and I gave this little speech. All my friends and family were there, the ones that had been with me the whole time. I found myself talking to all these people that weren't there that I remembered and to the point of some of my friends were like, "You talked about that guy from grade eight?" I'm like, "I'm standing right here. Aren't you supposed to thank your best friends for how did you get there?" And I'm like, "Yeah, but I'm sorry I took you guys for granted because you're standing here in front of me." But all this long story to say, I just found myself thinking about all these people that I played basketball with on the playground, whether I was on my knees or on my legs or on my chair. I was just always trying to be an athlete in town and be around other people.
I was thinking about some of them even though they weren't there at the ceremony necessarily. Just all that to say, I really feel like a part of that community past and present and hopefully, future. So the Hall of Fame, the sign, it's a real honour. I hope that town feels half as much warmth or whatever, proud as I feel in the town and that community.

Josh Watson:
Now as athletes, there's always seems to be a point where we look back at our careers and say that was the starting point, that was the thing that drove me to do what I've done. You were named back-to-back Basketball Junior World Championship MVP in 1997 and then again in 2001. I'm curious, was that the point in your career, albeit early, where you knew this could be something you're good at or does it go earlier or later than that?

Patrick Anderson:
Yes, it's probably the most humble thing to say, but I maybe knew that already. People have been popping my tires for a while that I was good. But it's interesting that you asked that just because those are two very different inflection points in my career, even when they sound similar like World Juniors. In '97, it was the first World Juniors and it did really feel like the launching of a ship. It wasn't just me. Joey Johnson was there, who was there. We played years together with him and he is just a legend of the national team and some other guys. Bo Hedges was there. Anyway, it felt like the start of something, for sure. The fact that it was in Toronto was extra special. Four years later though in Brazil, we had won a Paralympics in 2000 and I felt like I was this guy with that stature in the sport internationally and a big target on my back and everyone was coming after me and it felt like a much more serious growing up dog-eat-dog kind of thing.
So pulling that out, it really was one of the most hot house environments I've ever played in Brazil with thousands of people just screaming me down and want my blood. Well, this is fun. This is what being an athlete I think is supposed to feel like at times, being in the other team's rank or the other team's stadium. So for that reason, that's super memorable. But yeah, I guess I do, I've benefited from having some success early on and feeling like success, in some ways, [inaudible 00:28:21] success and felt like it was something to definitely build on and gave me confidence and a lot of pride that now Canada was really planting our flag. Like I mentioned, the women really I think showed us it was possible in the '90s for a little country like Canada. It was always hanging around to not only just hang around or win a medal, but be the flag bearers, be the pointy edge, be the team that everyone else is chasing. I think they really gave us that belief and then when we started achieving that ourselves, it's pretty intoxicating.
We talk about longevity as something that's still with me now. People know who I am and come after me and I enjoy trying to be the rabbit that other people are chasing. I think that's something that both gives me joy and I find fun and also I feel like it's something I can give to the sport and push people and give them something, someone to chase. To the degree that's true still in my 40s, I don't know, but it doesn't matter. I still enjoy doing it and I think yeah, I'm gratified by it.

Claire Buchanan:
You talk about all the check marks that you got, all the boxes you got to check. Gold medal, check.

Patrick Anderson:
Right.

Claire Buchanan:
MVP, check. What do you have desired to accomplish now? What boxes or shoes you have to fill?

Patrick Anderson:
Millions and millions of dollars.

Claire Buchanan:
Through music or sport or-

Patrick Anderson:
Through the lottery. Oh, well, yeah. Show me the money. Well one, I came back after Rio because I really like these guys. I'm playing with some of my old buddies, but also some young guys who weren't part of those teams like 2012 and before. I want to win with those guys because I like them, I respect them and we have a good thing going, but we are middle of the pack team. That could break either way for us. I would just love to win with those guys. It would mean something a little bit different than those past medals, especially given in 2022 or 2024. It's never been harder, I don't think, to get on the podium. So there's that. I don't know if you call them an accomplishment, but whether it's next year or in two years or five or 10, finding a way to just get back to the sport and share it with people.
It's not a matter of repaying a debt that I owed in the sport, but just out of love for the sport and the community to contribute. I don't really know what that looks like, but just to contribute to the health and vibrancy of the sport would feel like a real accomplishment when that time comes. But for now, I'm just trying to train and make ends meet and raise three kids with my wife and make some music and stuff like that. An album, that would be another accomplishment. Were we talking about basketball or just general life goals? Are we wrapping up? Stop talking.

Claire Buchanan:
What boxes do you have to check? Just-

Patrick Anderson:
Yeah. I've been very fortunate and I hope that people who've supported me along the way know how much that they meant to me and our sport. It definitely doesn't happen alone.

Claire Buchanan:
Well, as a fan of your music for quite a while, I wouldn't mind-

Patrick Anderson:
All right.

Claire Buchanan:
... another album coming out either.

Patrick Anderson:
We'll get to work. My wife's got some coming. She just released a song, Ana Paddock. I'm going to plug it.

Claire Buchanan:
Yeah.

Patrick Anderson:
Normally, we record together, but she recorded a few songs about her daughter, youngest daughter who was born a few years ago and has her own disability story. She has something called Bardet-Biedl Syndrome. It's a genetic disorder that meant her birth was very dramatic in early life and she's had certain manifestations over the course of her life. So it's interesting being on that side of it, of disability now. It's not 100% clear how it will be manifested in her life going forward, but she has some developmental delays with speech and mobility and stuff like that. So now I'm the parent of somebody with a disability and walking alongside her. Anyway, these songs that my wife has written and recorded are just, to me, amazing, but I'm a little too close to it to be an objective person. Check out Ana Paddock.

Claire Buchanan:
A little biased.

Patrick Anderson:
Anyway, yeah.

Brock Richardson:
Hey, Patrick, we've done a ton of interviews doing this and we've just started on the video podcast realm. The thing you sometimes get with athletes is you get the conventional answer. I've done my thing. I'm happy with it. I have to say, sitting here as a producer and host of this program, your honesty, you made us all smile, laugh at one point or another in this interview, we really greatly appreciate that, you coming on and talking to us about all your points in life. Best of luck with all of your success. Once again, thank you so much for joining us and we will have you back on again down the line very soon.

Patrick Anderson:
Sounds good. Absolutely my pleasure. You guys have a great day. Good to see you Claire.

Brock Richardson:
That was Patrick Anderson who is a five-time Paralympic athlete in the sport of wheelchair basketball talking to us all about his career. If you like what you have heard, here's how you can get ahold of us by voicemail.

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Brock Richardson:
Mario Delisle has been recently named the high-performance director at Boccia Canada. I recently sat down with him at the Canadian Boccia National Championships, but due to some technical challenges with that interview, we're going to recycle it now. He has recently come back with his team from World Championships and he's here to tell us about his role and World Championships. Mario, thanks so much for joining us on this video form.

Josh Watson:
We-

Mario Delisle:
Thank you for having me, Brock.

Josh Watson:
... had the opportunity to speak with you a couple of times in your role as coach for the national boccia team. Now we get the pleasure of speaking to you as the high-performance director. Can you give us an idea of what that means or what that changes?

Mario Delisle:
Yeah. Well, that means I'm now in charge of the whole high-performance program as a whole. Obviously and more specifically, I am responsible for planning and delivery of the program. I have to provide leadership and guidance to everyone, but specifically now, coaching team and the team of specialists. I'm not as much with the athletes that I was in the past in this role. Part of my responsibility, a lot of it is also to be a liaison with [inaudible 00:35:57] where we have our training center. Also, all the sport in Canada, Sport Canada, the Canadian Paralympic Committee, CCES for anti-doping, all of this is now my problem.

Brock Richardson:
I spoke with you, as I mentioned on the intro, in London, Ontario, which is the National Championships. We discussed at that event that this is primarily an event for provincial coaches and the provincial programs. Can you explain how your role differs there today as it would've back when you were the head coach?

Mario Delisle:
On the HP side, on the high-performance side, we are using the Canadian championship for selection purpose mostly. This event is by the end of the year and it's a great occasion to update our list of potential athlete for the national team, for the Espoir team now since last year. Most of my role during the championship is taking notes, doing the game analysis to make sure athletes are doing what we are looking for. Obviously, video because we can't be on each court always. Videoing the game is very important for further observation, taking some picture and make sure we are looking at the right athletes for the upcoming events. So confirming athletes' potential for international play basically is what we are looking for and this is what I was doing [inaudible 00:37:54].

Claire Buchanan:
A lot of detail goes into selecting a National Championship team as well as being successful while you're at National Championships. In your point of view, what defines success at a tournament such as National Championship?

Mario Delisle:
Yeah. Boccia is a sport where athletes are not in action every week like some sports. So there's a tournament here and there during the year, so success at this level does not necessarily mean winning all games. In boccia, there's a lot to consider and success at this stage is mostly related to the quality of the equipment. I'm going to say the capacity to work with it, because you can have some great ball, a great ramp, a great wheelchair to play the game, but the athletes are still in development basically when they come to the Canadian championship. So capacity to work with your equipment. Generate consistency in shot is something we're looking at and something they need to focus on. Having a great performance partner is also very important and good coaching is an important aspect that we look as well for continuous progression.
A performance partner, by the way, is someone that accompany the athlete in boccia in most classification and in some, it's necessary for that person to be on the court with the athlete. They actually have a role to play. So that relationship and communication with that person needs to be at very good [inaudible 00:39:53].

Josh Watson:
When you go to an event like National Championships, you obviously have your eye on specific athletes, but what happens if there's an athlete that you weren't necessarily targeting coming into the event and they really surprise you? Does the selection process allow for you to consider that individual beyond the athletes you were previously targeting?

Mario Delisle:
Yeah. I'm going to say it depends on the year because we obviously were a Paralympic sport and I'm going to say, beside World Championship, Paralympic game every cycle is the top thing that you aim, Paralympic game. In some years, like this year for example, 2023, by the end of this year, we have to have as many athletes in good position in ranking because the qualification for the game is December 31st. We were limited in the passing competition, but there is more competition we can go to now. To answer your question, it's always great for us to see new talent. We're looking for that. That's one reason we go to the championship every year to see not only the new talent, but those who were new the year before or two years ago, where they bring their game now is always very, very nice.
Considering the calendar, considering the qualification for the game and in order to have more athletes in the pipeline, we have created an Espoir team. It's mostly there that now the athletes are developing. This year championship was an example. We see at least two athletes that we'd never seen before and was great. We had great discussion. These athletes were not selected this year, but might be next year [inaudible 00:42:03].

Claire Buchanan:
You touched on development a lot and it's brought you success in bringing back to Boccia Canada the development team. Can you touch on the impact that has on growing the game and future generations of athletes in the sport?

Mario Delisle:
Yeah. The Espoir team, what we were finding out, on the national team, we used to have 16 athletes in the past. We're now limiting to 10. These athletes are the one we're aiming for the bigger competition during the year. Creating that Espoir group, they're the next generation of athletes. They usually are not ready for the bigger event, but we want to make sure we are providing training guidance, of course. We're making sure these athletes are training the way they should. We want to have a [inaudible 00:43:03] performance coach around them for the year. When I say around, unfortunately it's not at every practice and it's not in the same city. We don't have the capacity, but phone communication, internet. Now, we can actually be on the court with some athletes sometimes while at distance. So really looking forward to bringing these athletes to the next stage.
I've mentioned it earlier, there are some events now that we can go to that are for more development event. The goal is to send these Espoir athlete to at least one challenger event. We call this a challenger event, at least one during the year to prepare them for the bigger event, which are sometime very-

Brock Richardson:
We're joined by Mario Delisle who is the high-performance director at Boccia Canada. He's giving us a rundown of his role in National Championships. I'm your host Brock Richardson and I'm alongside Claire Buchanan and Josh Watson.

Claire Buchanan:
You recently came back with the national program from World Championships. Can you chat a little bit about that event from a generic perspective?

Mario Delisle:
Yeah. It's pretty much incredible, the sport of boccia is developing in the world. Every year, we see more events for what, six to eight years. Of course, we were hit by COVID as well. Everyone, we couldn't compete for some time, but it was great to see that the World Championship this year after four year. The event was big. It was 40 nation. The International Federation is now there's more than 60 country that is part of the sport, but 40 nation made it to the World Championship. That's for 169 athletes. It was a great event. It was big. There are many hotel needed to be used. When we say 169 athletes, overall, we're talking about more than 300 people that participate overall. It was great to be in Rio. The heat was a challenge, the heat and the humidity. We have athletes, they're affected with heat, some, so we needed to have backup plans to manage the heat over there.
But it was great, a great individual event followed by the caravan. We were able to have good performance from many Canadian. Most of the team, I had eight athletes over there and six out of eight made it to the next round. So they did the pool. So they win most of their game in pool and made it to the next round. Unfortunately at that round, we lost four of them, so only two of them were able to go further away. Our best ranking was a fourth position in the BC4 class. We played for a medal in the individual portion of the event. Then on the team and pair portion of the event, we made it to the end with our BC4 pairs. Actually, we made it to the bronze game, so last the semifinal game against Slovakia, number one in the world, but we were able to beat Japan for bronze. So we're very happy coming back with the medal because it's a challenge to win medal in these events.

Brock Richardson:
Absolutely. It is for sure. Mario, it's always a pleasure for me to have you on the program. I've got to be honest, for the listener that doesn't know, who might be new to our video podcast specifically, Mario was my coach for about seven years on the national program, and so him and I have a special relationship. It's so wonderful to see the sport grow. It's good to have you on our program as always.

Mario Delisle:
I remember these events along with you, Brock. It's always a-

Brock Richardson:
Yes, thank you so much. That was Mario Delisle, who is the high-performance director at Boccia Canada and formally my head coach for many, many years. Okay. As we finish up The Neutral Zone podcast for another day, we've got about five minutes remaining and we don't often do two interviews back to back, but we were able to do that today. One of the things that Patrick Anderson mentioned in the first block of the interview, which is the thing that I want to touch on with both of you, is that being involved in sports is like an elastic band. He mentioned that that elastic band gave way, and that's the point to which he felt he needed to step away. But then as time went on, he realized he wanted to go back. I know for me personally, I had that same feeling and I can relate very much to exactly what he's saying.
I had such a passion for Bocci for years and years and years. I ate, sleep, and breathe bocci all the time and it was just my existence. It was my life. I heard that very much from Patrick as well and it's interesting to see that the drive took him back into the game and back to the Paralympic games, whereas I went back to boccia and it did not go very well at all for me. I'm curious to your thoughts on the whole that band telling you maybe it's time to let go here, but then the drive to come back. Claire, start with you.

Claire Buchanan:
I know exactly what that feeling feels like. I had a similar, maybe not a similar situation with also wheelchair basketball. I got to a place where I feel like I had accomplished and gotten to where I was going to get in the sport. I won National Championships in college and got to be in the national team program for over a decade and travel and compete with the Canada jersey on. But all at one time, I got back into para hockey and had a child all at the same time. So I really felt that band stretch when I was doing basketball and hockey and being a new mom all at once. I really had to take the time to think of, do I want to let this band go and really release it and move on from basketball? I ended up making that decision and seeing how I could put my skills and my effort and see what kind of impact I could have with para hockey.
I miss wheelchair basketball, yes. It's a great sport and I loved playing it, but at the same time, I'm so glad that I am fully diving head first and all in, as Patrick touched on as well, with the women's team and growing that sport.

Josh Watson:
Yeah, it's a little bit of a different situation, I guess for me, in that I haven't been at a national level necessarily, at least when it comes to para hockey. To a degree, I guess I have reached that with track and field in that I have been to National Championships and that is very exciting. But I would say I'm probably going through that right now where I'm at a point where my job is what it is and I have a new relationship and I have to decide, okay, what do I want to do and what do I not want to do? That does make it a bit challenging. So it's going to be an interesting road to wheel down, so to speak.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, for sure. It's tough when you have to get to that point to where you're like, what do I do? And I mean, I had months and months and months of discussion with people and it wasn't like a shock to people that I left sports. It was something that people knew was coming. And so when Patrick earlier said that the elastic hit and said, here we go, that's when it gets tough. I wanted to bring that in closing of today's show and bring that all together. That is the end of our show for this week. I'd like to thank Josh Watson, Claire Buchanan. I'd also like to thank our technical producer, Marc Aflalo. Our podcast coordinator is Ryan Delehanty. Tune in next week because you just never know what happens when you enter The Neutral Zone. Thanks so much and we'll talk to you next week.