Audio:
Are you ready? Let's go. From AMI Central, now start playing in the Neutral Zone. Here's a pitch on the way. 36 yards for the win. This... here come the big chance, the shot... is... is this the tiger... The Neutral Zone. Home run. This is as good as it gets. Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
What's going on? It's time for another edition of The Neutral Zone. I am indeed your host, Brock Richardson, and I got to tell you, we have a really good show lined up for you today. Let me give you a little bit of a teaser of the program. We're going to be talking to former Para ice hockey Paralympian Anthony Gale, who will stop by to tell us about his career. And I've got to be honest because I have the papers in front of me, we have some pretty pointed questions we're going to throw his way about Hockey Canada and what he sees needs to change since the last time they won a gold medal in 2006.
So he's going to come along and I'm sure he's going to be very honest with us, we hope so anyways, and it's going to be a fascinating conversation, as it is always. Plus, we're going to chat a little bit about whether or not players have too much say within their organization. And so we'll have that conversation and much, much more. You never do know what kind of shenanigans or trouble we get up to on any given program. To help me with the shenanigans/trouble, let's bring in our cohost for the day. Let's start with Cam Jenkins. Cameron, how are you?

Cam Jenkins:
I'm doing pretty good. Felt like the NHL trade deadline was yesterday, with all the trades that happened and another one this afternoon. It used to be one of my favourite times of the year, the NHL trade deadline. A lot different under the salary cap, but I'm really looking forward to this week and the trade deadline.

Brock Richardson:
Yes, for sure. It's a good day. It feels like all the trades will happen before the deadline, as you point out, so that means we're going to have to watch TSN or Sportsnet, figure out how to fill 12 hours of coverage when there's like, three trades in the day, but we'll see.

Cam Jenkins:
I really hope there's no trades one trade deadline. Wouldn't that be hilarious? Oh my gosh.

Brock Richardson:
It would. I don't think the higher-ups would be too happy about that, but I would love it as a consumer because I love to see what kind of stuff they come up with to fill the time. Also joining us is one Josh Watson. Josh, how are you?

Josh Watson:
I'm doing well, Brock and Cam. It's a wonderful Monday here as we record today, and there's been lots of trade news and we even have a little bit of a breaking story, which we'll get into in our headlines here, but had a nice quiet weekend. Didn't do a whole lot except taking the Scotties Tournament of Hearts, which was quite entertaining, ending with Carrie Anderson winning her fourth consecutive Scotties, which is pretty darn remarkable in my book. It was a lot of fun, so it's going to be fun to talk some sports today.

Brock Richardson:
Yes, indeed. With that, let's get into our headlines for this week.

Audio:
Neutral Zone headlines, headlines, headlines.

Josh Watson:
Congratulations goes out to the Canadian Women's National Hockey team, as they defeated the United States four games to three in their most recent rivalry series. Team Canada did this in comeback fashion, as they were down three games to one in the series and managed to rattle off three consecutive wins. Congratulations ladies, on kicking some American tail as usual. It's always fun to watch those games. The two teams do not like each other and it's really a lot of fun to see Team Canada wind up on top.

Brock Richardson:
Oh, that was fun watching Josh dance around the word he wanted to say for a few minutes there. We continue with congratulations on the headlines. As Josh aptly mentioned, Team Canada continues their run as champion as they win their fourth straight event at the Scotties Tournament of Hearts. This time they defeated Manitoba's Jennifer Jones by a score of 10-4. Shout out also goes out to Shannon Birchard for winning her fifth consecutive Scotties, this going back to when she played with Chelsea Carey, and she has only played in five Scotties and she has been a winner in every single one. Also, a keynote to make note of is that Canada has a whopping 45 wins and 6 losses at this event. They are outstanding and dominant. Congratulations. Go represent Canada well in Sweden.

Cam Jenkins:
It was a phenomenal tournament or bonspiel that they played, so good luck to [inaudible 00:05:24]. Former Toronto Argonaut's quarterback and Grey Cup champion McLeod Bethel-Thompson is leaving the team on a winning note. The veteran quarterback announced on social media on Wednesday he'll play with the USFL's New Orleans Breakers in 2023. Bethel-Thompson became a CFL free agent earlier this month. I was never a huge Bethel-Thompson fan. Saying that I'm really glad that he got the Argos to the Grey Cup last year, but I'm really interested and really excited to see Chad Kelly and how he's going to be as the quarterback of the Toronto Argonauts.

Josh Watson:
Canada Soccer president Nick Bontis has resigned. In a statement, he acknowledged that change is needed to achieve labour peace. Bontis was elected president in November of 2020, succeeding Stephen Reed. Currently, the organization is embroiled in a labour dispute with both its men's and women's national teams. This most recently came to a head as Team Canada women went on strike just prior to the She Believes Cup, which took place in the United States.
I, for one, am glad to see this happen. I think whatever has gone on with this organization starts with its president, and if there is any thought that there's been some misdeeds or some bad negotiating, then it is time for change. And I hope that when a new president is elected, the teams can come to an agreement with Canada Soccer and they can get back on their winning ways because I do believe that it did affect the Canadian women at the She Believes Cup.

Brock Richardson:
Without a doubt, it affected the women at the She Believes Cup. This has been an ongoing labour dispute for quite some time. You go back to the World Cup, the men weren't happy. She Believes Cup, they weren't happy, and it starts at the top and sometimes that's where the change needs to happen. So I like you, Josh, agree with this and hope that we see better change in the coming weeks and months. Those are your headlines for this week.
Let's check in on our Twitter poll questions. We asked you, do you believe professional athletes have too much say in their organization? 75% said not enough, 25% said too much and nobody said leave it the way it is. This week's question looks like this. With spring training off and running, how do you think the Toronto Blue Jays will fare? Be mediocre? Make the playoffs? Win it all? You may cast your votes at our Twitter handle coming at you right now.

Audio:
And welcome back to the Neutral Zone AMI broadcast booth, and we are set to get this ballgame underway. The first pitch brought to you by Brock Richardson's Twitter account, @neutralzonebr. First pitch, strike. And hey gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan for the Neutral Zone. Find her @neutralzonecb. And there's a swing and a chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base out for a routine out. And fans, there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from the Neutral Zone @neutralzonecamj and @jwatson200. Now that's a winning combination. And this Oregon interlude is brought to you by AMI Audio on Twitter. Get in touch with the Neutral Zone, type in @amiaudio.

Brock Richardson:
Our guest today is extremely athletic and has played many different parasports including wheelchair racing, wheelchair basketball, para ice hockey, and most recently, he has begun playing wheelchair curling. I am talking about Paralympic athlete Anthony Gale. He joins us now from Toronto, Ontario to talk all about his para career. Anthony, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate it.

Anthony Gale:
Thanks for having me.

Josh Watson:
Anthony, can you give us a little bit of a synopsis on how you became involved in parasports?

Anthony Gale:
Yeah. I started at the age of seven playing pretty much everything that I could, sledge hockey, wheelchair basketball, wheelchair racing. At the age of seven, with the Halton/Peel Cruisers, a player David Ali actually passed the information on about the Cruisers to my grandparents. He grew up on the same street as them, so passed the information on to them, they passed it on to my parents and I got involved.

Cam Jenkins:
Now, you've been to the Paralympics for Paralympic ice hockey. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about your Paralympic career?

Anthony Gale:
Yeah. First of all, what an experience. That was something I'll never forget. From the opening ceremonies to playing, obviously, and the closing ceremonies is something that for a lot of people it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and if you're lucky to do it multiple times, that's amazing. But for me so far, just one time, and like I said, it is something that I'll never forget and I'll cherish for the rest of my life. And obviously, we came home with a bronze medal, not what we wanted at the time, but it's something again that I hold close to my heart and something that I cherish and something that I'm extremely proud of, and it's something that not a lot of people have, so it's something that I hold close to me.

Josh Watson:
Now, at some point, you decided to walk away from pair of ice hockey after what was a successful career. Can you talk to us a little bit about the decision-making and what went into it?

Anthony Gale:
Yeah. I'll be honest, initially, it wasn't my own decision. I was injured at my last tryout and was released upon the end of that selection camp. But the decision I guess to either continue trying to make a comeback the following season or just move on was my own. At that point, I was in my early twenties and had been to the Paralympics and I just made that decision to I guess not really put the effort into it anymore and go to school and try to get a big boy job and move on from the sport, but it wasn't easy. I was still pretty young at the time and felt I could have continued to play, and I still like to think that if I was in shape right now, I still could play, but who knows? I don't regret that decision at all and I'm happy where I am today.

Cam Jenkins:
It's been since 2006 since Canada's been able to get a gold, and that was in Torino. Can you maybe talk about why USA has been so dominant and what Canada needs to do to be able to get back up to the gold medal?

Anthony Gale:
Yeah. Like you said, it's obviously no secret. They are completely dominant. Even when I was playing, we won a world championship in 2013 the year before the Paralympics, and it was a 1-0 game and we were still competitive with them. We were still competitive with them at the Paralympics, but in my opinion, I guess it would be their development program is far superior than Hockey Canada. With USA Hockey, I guess they have more of a development program just in the sense that they have more teams to choose from or players to choose from, obviously, with their population being a lot higher.
But just in general, I could be wrong on this, like you said, I've been removed from it for a while now, but I don't really think there is much of a development program at this point, at least in the sense where they're playing games against other countries because there's also not very many other development programs across the world other than Canada and the United States. So just the pool of players they have to choose from and the lack of development here.

Josh Watson:
You mentioned that Canada needs to do more in regards to development. Is that the only thing that Canada needs to improve on or is there more to it than that?

Anthony Gale:
I don't think it is just development. There's so many components to hockey, to sport in general. It's physical, it's mental, so it's hard to pinpoint what could be done or what needs to be done to get back to that level because they've been fortunate enough since I've left to still continue to win. They've still picked up another world championship, which is just as important as any other tournament. And you can say the Olympics and the Paralympics are a lot more important, but the way you look at it as an athlete is it is just another tournament. It's always going to be in the back of your mind that it is the Olympics or it is the Paralympics, and it's something that you go through the motions of those other tournaments in order to get to that Paralympic experience.
So development is a big part of it, not necessarily at the grassroots level, but I mean picking players at a younger age. Look at guys like Brody Roybal and Declan Farmer on the United States. They've been around on the men's national team since they were like 15, 16 years old. They're probably in their mid-twenties now and they're just dominating the sport, and unfortunately, we don't really have many guys like that. We don't have guys that are dominating at such a young age, with the exception I guess of Tyler McGregor. The Team Canada captain right now has been around, I want to say since 2013 I believe was his first season and he was an older teenager, 18, 19.
But again, to go back to your question, it's not just development. There needs to be a little bit more not commitment, I don't want to say commitment because I know all those guys are very committed, but there needs to be a little bit more, to put a word to it, I guess more games, more training camps. More opportunities to play for these players outside of just going to the World sledge Challenge or the Para Hockey Cup, I guess that Canada puts on now is what it's called, and creating more camps for them to practice and be together as a team and to excel together.

Brock Richardson:
We're joined by Anthony Gayle, who is a Paralympic athlete in the sport of para ice hockey and he is also taking up the sport of wheelchair curling, which we'll find out in just a little bit more as we progress through the interview. You're listening to the Neutral Zone. I'm joined by Cam Jenkins and Josh Watson, and of course I'm your host, Brock Richardson.

Josh Watson:
There've been different coaches throughout the years and there's been a lot of discussion surrounding them. How much of this do you put on the coaches versus players? It seems a bit too easy to say that it's all on the coaches, isn't it?

Anthony Gale:
Definitely. I think that is kind of a cop out. You see it all the time and in professional sports. In the NHL and the NBA, guys get fired because the team's not producing. And I could say that that was the case when I was playing after we finished in Sochi. They cleared house. Our entire coaching staff was gone the following year, all the way down to our team doctor. Yes, it can make a difference, but I don't think you can totally blame a coach for what's going on the ice or on the playing field in any sport. From my experience, I guess the first four years that I played was under Mike Mondin and he had been around the game, around sledge hockey for quite a while.
Previous to me coming up, he was previously an assistant coach at the 2010 Paralympic Games and prior to that, so he knew what he was doing. Following our disappointing, if you want to say, outing at the Paralympics in Sochi when he was let go and they brought in Ken Babey, the one thing I would say is he had a great resume in terms of hockey, the standup game, in my opinion. I don't remember exactly what schools he was with, I want to say Michigan in the NCAA and won multiple national championships with them. And so no doubt he knows the game, but I think the problem with sledge hockey, in general, is we're trying to take hockey coaches and bring them into sledge hockey, or para ice hockey as it's called now.
And that's a tough spot to be in I believe at the beginning because you're trying to relate the standup game to the para ice hockey game where there's maybe not a whole lot of rule differences, but positionally it is quite a bit different. For instance, we can't skate backwards, so there's a lot of angling that goes into the game that you might not see in the standup game. It's a little bit harder to make a body check. So I think it is a little bit harder to have guys with the standup experience come in that don't necessarily have experience with sledge hockey at the very beginning, and I think there needs to be a little bit more emphasis on having coaches with a little bit more sledge experience come into those roles.

Cam Jenkins:
You've recently started playing one of my favourite games, wheelchair curling. Can you maybe talk a little bit about your journey starting to play wheelchair curling?

Anthony Gale:
Yeah, absolutely. I recently actually just came back to playing Paradise Hockey last season, again with the Halton-Peel cruisers, and our coach Kelvin Johnson has been around curling for most of his life, I'm sure. He's got I think five kids that are all involved now in curling at some capacity. And so it's myself, Jordan Cullum, who also had a stint on Team Canada with sledge hockey, my wife Heather and Kennedy, who is Kelvin's son and also a sledge hockey player have all come together, created this curling team.
It's something that is new to all four of us, with the exception of Kennedy being around the game a little bit more with his family endeavours. But it's something new to all of us and we're of learning at a slow pace right now in our first season, but it's something that I did have an interest in previously and found it a little bit harder to get into, and when this opportunity arose that Kelvin wanted to start a team and get involved, it was a no-brainer for me and I brought it to my wife and she was right away wanting to get into it as well.

Josh Watson:
I'm curious, what was the transition like between para ice hockey and wheelchair curling?

Anthony Gale:
Obviously, the first thing is the physicality. I don't want to say you don't have to be athletic to play because that's not true, but it's just a different type of athleticism I guess, because in a way, I guess it would be more mental trying to get past the frustrations of not making a shot because each player on our team only gets two shots per end. So it can be a little frustrating when you don't make a shot that you should or that you're capable of, whereas in para ice hockey, you have one bad shift and you're going to have 10 or 15 more of those in a game, where we might only play six to eight ends, so that's only maximum 16 rocks you're throwing. So the room for error, I guess. You don't want to be making too many mistakes, as it's a slimmer area for error.
It's been good. We've played in I think four events since September and we're getting ready for our next event and most likely our last of the season. Towards the end of March, we're playing actually in a standup stick provincial tournament. As of right now at least, we're the only wheelchair curling team that'll be involved, so it'll be a little bit of a learning curve I guess for us because the other teams will have sweepers, and not typically in wheelchair curling, you do not have sweepers. It's all just based on accuracy, but we're looking forward to it. It should be fun, and looking forward to next year as well.

Cam Jenkins:
Anthony, can you maybe talk about what parasports has done for your life and throughout your journey?

Anthony Gale:
As simple as bringing me so many friends and so many people that I've been lucky to have met and crossed paths with. And obviously, you and I grew up together with the Cruisers and going to Easter Seals camps and all that kind of stuff as young little lads, and then to just the life lessons. I'm sure any athlete, para sport or able-bodied sport can attest to the life lessons you learn in sports and what that does for you as you grow older and what it means to each person. And for me, like I said, so many of my best friends I've met not through wheelchair curling but just through parasport in general. I met my wife through parasport, so there's nothing more I could really ask for.

Brock Richardson:
That was Anthony Gale talking to us about his career in para ice hockey and wheelchair curling. If you like what you heard in this interview or anything else we do on the program, here's how you can get ahold of us by voicemail.

Audio:
Hey, if you want to leave a message for the Neutral Zone, call now 1-866-509-4545, and don't forget to give us permission to use your message on the air. Let's get ready to leave a voicemail.

Brock Richardson:
We just had a wonderful chat with Anthony Gale, who as we mentioned is a former ice hockey player and Paralympic athlete within para ice hockey. And for me, I think the thing that stuck out in the interview was when we asked him about the idea of coaches and whether or not it is their responsibility or what they have to bear in the fact that Canada hasn't won a gold medal since Torino 2006, what would be his thoughts on that? And he very eloquently said that it's a cop-out, was his words. That's the easy answer, and I think he said in that interview as well that when he finished in the Paralympic games, all of the coaching staff he was a part of was then subsequently released right down to the doctor, in fact. And I think that speaks to a lot in that athletes do need to take some ownership in when coaches get fired.
That's the case. And I think it's tough for athletes to do that, to see their coaches go down and they know that they have a part to play in. So I appreciate the honesty of Anthony and what that's like, and that's the reason we got him when we did because I wanted some real, honest answers with what's going on with para ice hockey in Canada, and he certainly gave us that information. With that said though, we asked you in our Twitter poll questions last week as to whether or not you think players have too much power. And we said the results earlier in the program and it was 75% said no, they didn't have enough and 25% said they had too many. And I was surprised by this, truly. I thought it would be the other way around. Cameron, what are your thoughts on just the Twitter poll results?

Cam Jenkins:
I thought, to be quite honest with you, that they would say that players have more clout than the management or of the coaches. And maybe it's not fair of me because a lot of it, I'll take a look from pro sports. I won't necessarily look at it from the amateur sports point of view because I think there's a big difference between amateur sports and professional sports. And when you're talking amateur sports, they're not making any money, so I don't know if they have a lot of power when it comes to that through that kind of a sport.
But through professional sports, when you're paying players hockey $11 million, $30 to $40 million for NBA players and $30 to $40, even $50 million for baseball players, I think the players, they have a lot more power in the professional sports because they're just like, "Okay, well trade me." And that might mean the difference between having a great player to take you to playoffs and not being in the playoffs. So I think it really just depends on the actual sport that you're speaking of.

Brock Richardson:
Sure. Josh, you brought this topic to my attention a couple of weeks ago and we've just been able to get to it now because we've had a busy schedule as of late here on the program. But for you, what was the reasoning behind bringing us this topic and also your reaction to the Twitter poll results?

Josh Watson:
Well, I'll maybe answer that in reverse. The Twitter poll result surprises me a great deal, and maybe I wasn't clear when I brought the topic forward, but I was specifically looking at professional sports. As Cameron mentions, in amateur sport you really don't have the option to say, "Well, I don't like this coach. You have to change it." Whereas in professional sport, you do have more of a say I suppose, in terms of you can say it and then the team has the option to decide, "Yes, we're going to trade you away," or, "We'll do what you want," or whatever the case may be. Now, the reasoning for bringing the topic forward was I was listening to another media outlet talk about this very topic in relation to the NHL trade deadline.
And they were saying how a certain team they didn't feel would make moves from the upper management side or even the management side without talking to the star player or players on the team. And that just rubbed me the wrong way, and I guess it rubs me the wrong way because now I'm very lucky, I work with people that I really enjoy working with and who are friends, but in the past, I've worked in businesses where I can't just walk up to the CEO of the company and say, "I don't like my boss, go fire him." So why do you as a professional hockey player get to decide, "Oh, I don't want to play with this player," or, "I don't want this person to coach me, I don't like them"? You're being paid millions of dollars, be quiet and do your job.

Brock Richardson:
And I think that that's the real essence of where I sit on this. I came from the background, my parents, we all grew up with the same mentality. You earn a job and you do your job, and no matter whether you're making minimum wage, thousands of dollars to millions of dollars, you do the best you can for that organization, and I've lived by that. And guys, to be perfectly honest, I've lived by it through co-ops that are not paid jobs, that you don't get a lucrative money amount that you can say, "Well, I'm going to bring this to the bank and that's fine." To me, the experience is just as valuable as the paycheck, especially when you're in high school, and God bless most of our parents when you're able to live rent free and get the experience you need. But I just feel, Cameron, that money is the thing that talks. It's like well, I am Connor McDavid and I make $11 million a year, the top of the cap, and you got to respect me for who I am," and I don't like that train of thought.

Cam Jenkins:
Today we live in a day of collaboration, and I think it's great to be able to collaborate. At the same time, I think once you get that collaboration and asking for people's opinions, you as a general manager or as a president of hockey operations, because we're talking about hockey at the moment, you have to make the final call. But I think it's very valuable to get other people's opinions because in hockey, you want to see Connor McDavid's opinion to make sure that the player that they're bringing in, if they play the same style that Connor McDavid does, or what do they need for Connor McDavid's line? Do they need a person to go in the corners? Do they need a defenseman that's on his line that will clear the net? So I think it's very valuable to have a collaboration, but if a star player is just wanting to get friends and not really thinking about the team needs, then no, do not listen to the star player.
But that can be real touchy because we're using McDavid as an example, how much revenue does he bring in for the Oilers? At the end of the day it's a lot, and if it was a free agency like what it should be, he probably would be making $30 to $40 million a year. So I think there's a fine line between collaboration, which I think they should ask some of their star players or some of the players that they feel have a feel for their team and will give good suggestions as far as what's best for the team, but once you have a star that's making $11 million and they're bringing in so much revenue for you and they're like, "Well, I want out of here," then all of a sudden you're losing a lot of money. So I think you do need to balance that.

Brock Richardson:
Josh, to that point, I think the feeling is that I am somebody and I'm going to prove that and I'm going to prove it on the ice, on the court in a good way. But I think sometimes... the only word that's coming to my mind, guys, is respect, and I think it might be too of an aggressive word... we lose some respect for the people that are in management roles in that they can do their job too, and that they should also have a say in what they do and not feel, "Well, how is this going to affect X player, Y player, et cetera?" They should only be looking at it as how is it going to affect them on the field of play versus how is it going to affect them and their feel of the organization as a whole?

Josh Watson:
Yeah. I think that I can maybe clarify a little bit here. I'm not saying don't consult your star players at all, I'm just saying if you are sitting there as the general manager and saying, "Well, Connor wants me to go out and get Nazem Kadri, I'm going to do it," well, no, because Nazem Kadri might not be the best fit. If we take another example, let's look at the Calgary Flames. It's been well documented that Jonathan Huberdeau since coming over from Florida is not doing very well on that team, and with Darryl Sutter as a head coach. If you talk to people around the league, Darryl Sutter is a great coach. But if the management in Calgary listens to Huberdeau and he has some kind of ill will for Darryl Sutter, Sutter could very well be out because in some cases what you'll find is that the players have longer contracts than the coaches do.
And so the player, when they don't like something that the coach does or says to them, just sits back in their stall and goes, "Well, I'm going to be here long after you're gone, so I really don't care what you think." And that I think speaks to the respect factor that you're talking about. At the end of it all, it does, as Cameron said, need to be a collaboration. You collaborate and you work together as a team for success. And I think Calgary's actually a great example of they had an amazing team last year and did really, really well, and now all of a sudden they have a couple of new players and a couple of players have left, and they're not doing very well at all.

Cam Jenkins:
I think that's a symptom of the coach though too, because I think that when you turn a roster over like Calgary did, I think that the coach also needs to change. And too many times, the coach only coaches one certain way, and Darryl Sutter is known I believe as a defensive coach. So I think you have to work with the roster that you have, and I think that the coach should be able to morph or be able to transform their coaching style based on the players that they have.

Brock Richardson:
I agree. I think everybody has to adapt in the moment. I don't know why you would think this, but if you think Jonathan Huberdeau's not going to work on your line in Calgary, you do have to give it an opportunity. You have to give it the chance. You can't just say, "I'm going to make this change and I'm not going to agree with it and it's just not going to work." I think you as an athlete need to open your mind and say, "Okay. Well, there must be a reason why Brad Treliving feels that this is a good situation, this is the way it wants to be," and that's the easy answer.
I think it's too easy for athletes to walk up the ivory tower, if you can follow my train of thought here, and say, "This is what I want done and this is what I want done now," whereas maybe as a teenager, you just always felt that management did their thing and coaches did their thing. And I think we've lost that connection to the point where you can maybe go to a coach. And not every example is the same, I'm not trying to say this, but we've lost it in some regard where it's like figure it out within your own group before you just throw out, "Well, I'm going to go to the boss and see if I can get it changed," Josh.

Josh Watson:
Well, exactly. And I think another great example is actually the Brooklyn Nets in the NBA. You had Kevin Durant who came to Brooklyn and he said, "I want you to bring in Kyrie Irving and James Harden." Well, that was an unmitigated disaster if you ask most people, and not only that, but they brought in Steve Nash as their coach and then I think a year later that he was fired because presumably, the big three on the team didn't like him. And it's just like well, why did you do this? Because now none of them are there. Nash is gone, Durant's gone, Harden's gone, and even Kyrie Irving's gone. Now, we can argue that Brooklyn might be very happy that Kyrie is gone, but that's another topic altogether.

Cam Jenkins:
That's just a mess.

Josh Watson:
But it's just when you start listening to your star players and caving into what your star players want, I think that's a slippery slope because not every player is going to have the wherewithal to say, "I need to ask for things that are going to make the team better and not just me better."

Cam Jenkins:
And in the NBA, that's just a totally different beast altogether because you do have people that are in free agency, and Kyrie as well as the other gentleman. I can't remember his name and you just said it.

Josh Watson:
Harden or Durant,

Brock Richardson:
James Harden.

Cam Jenkins:
No, not James Harden, the other guy. Durant.

Brock Richardson:
Durant.

Cam Jenkins:
Those two talked in the off-season and they ended up saying, "Okay. Let's go to the Nets." And I think they got Harden in a trade from the 76ers to bring him in, and I'm pretty sure Durant Irving would've had talks about that or given the okay to do that. The NBA, that's just a me league. It's about individual players and not necessarily the team. Every individual player just tries to make themself look good at the end of the day in the NBA, so with the NBA, that's just a show. I want to say something else but I can't. We're on air. It's a family-friendly show, so it's just a show over there, man.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, it is. And I would say that that whole debacle really made Steve Nash look like a terrible coach because let's be real, even though I would argue that most of the GMs and owners are going to look at that situation a bit differently, but most times when you're looking to get a coach in there, you look at their track record as a coach. Well, Steve Nash's track record looks like garbage comparative to what it is. But again, I want to reiterate that I think most GMs in their situation are going to look at that situation and go, "Yeah, but this happened." And again, a lot of the GMs and higher-ups say, "Well, I can change this guy and I can make them into a better player," and that's all there is. What comes to mind for me is Matt Murray of the Toronto Maple Leafs. What did Kyle Dubas do? Kyle Dubas said, "I'm going to make Matt Murray into the greatest thing since sliced bread," and where is Matt Murray?

Cam Jenkins:
He said no such thing. No such thing.

Brock Richardson:
And then when the Matt Murray gets injured, Ottawa basically puts out a notice saying, "We knew about his injuries," in a polite way, and it's just like the GMs in all sports decide, "I'm going to try to make this person into this magical reclamation project," and it just doesn't work.

Cam Jenkins:
But sometimes it does. Look at Mike Bunting. He was a reclamation project, he doing quite well. Nylander, he's doing really well and everyone wanted him fired or traded off the teen. So don't you be going off on a rant about the Leafs. Just stop it.

Brock Richardson:
Okay. I don't want to get accused of being a homer, so I'm going to also throw in another one. What about Yusei Kikuchi? Everyone thought he was going to be this great thing and he can't even pitch. He can't even pitch in the bullpen.

Cam Jenkins:
He went from one Toronto team to the other Toronto team, you homer.

Brock Richardson:
But they're a national team, so we're good.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, okay. No, his first start was really good. He had a couple of innings and everyone's, "Rah, Rah Kikuchi," or whatever. Everyone's back on the train.

Brock Richardson:
It's spring training. Get a hold of yourself.

Cam Jenkins:
I do have a hold of myself. Watch, he's going to be one of those comeback players and he's going to do well and then you're going to be eating your words there, Brock.

Josh Watson:
I'll wait and see on that one, but I hope you're right, Cameron. I hope you're right.

Brock Richardson:
The point is that-

Cam Jenkins:
What is the point, Brock?

Brock Richardson:
GMs want to make themselves look good by reclamation, projects and 8 times out of 10 reclamation projects don't work. Maybe that's a bit of a high statistic, but I would say more-

Cam Jenkins:
But that's what you have to do in the NHL with the hard salary cap is that there's the hierarchy of the players getting paid lots and lots of money, and then everyone else gets paid really low and you're hoping for a reclamation project because that's all you can spend on. So that's the way NHL hockey works these days because it's a salary cap.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. And the thing is you put so much stock into your forwards, the people that are going to score you the goals and the buckets and insert reference here, and then as the team goes on, you start losing. "Well, we got to find this defenseman," and you're right, it is a reclamation project. I look at Evander Kane, who was a reclamation project for the Edmonton Oilers, which has worked out really, really well for Edmonton. I did not think it would, and it has. So there are situations where reclamation projects can work well, but again, some of your off-the-field situations can make it in to be worse. Cameron, you were going to comment?

Cam Jenkins:
No, I was just going to say we can debate until the cows come home, which I usually love to do, but with Kane he's a bit of a different story because at least for me, I didn't know off the ice if he was going to make it because of his attitude and stuff like that. To me, his hockey IQ and being able to play hockey, he could play at a high level. It was just all the other in between the years stuff I wasn't sure about, so that's my opinion on him.

Brock Richardson:
I agree, and I think that can be a lot of the point is that not only is it your on-ice productivity, it's your off-ice stuff also. I think athletes feel that what happens off the field of play doesn't really matter. Well, in essence, it absolutely does matter and that's been proven.

Josh Watson:
I think we're talking about Kyrie again.

Brock Richardson:
Yes.

Josh Watson:
"What I do off the court doesn't matter." Well, yes it does when you're being an idiot.

Cam Jenkins:
[inaudible 00:49:06] National Basketball Association team, it does matter.

Brock Richardson:
As we're closing off, I am just curious to know if you guys can think in about two and a half minutes what can be done about all this? Is there a solution to all of this or is it just we are where we are, Josh?

Josh Watson:
Unfortunately, I think it's just we are where we are. If you are a general manager of a sports team that's a professional team in a professional league, I think you owe it to your players to listen to all of them, not just the star players, but I think that you also owe it to your manager and your fans to do what's best for your team because otherwise, you end up being a fan of the Brooklyn Nets and they're basically a G League team right now.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah. I think at the end of the day, the funny answer is now hold anyone out that is not playing hard enough for trade-related reasons, especially this time of year, and sit their butt on the bench. In a serious answer, I think collaboration is the way to go, if you ask a lot of the players what their opinion is and they can choose to give it or not give it. I think it's a dangerous game when you're asking all 25 different players about a move you're going to make because then there's a lot of opinions, and at least for me and the type of person I am, that clouds my judgment with having so many different opinions. So I think there has to be a happy medium of your main core or other people that they point out that they have good ideas and go with that core, whomever it is, and talk to them and go from there.

Brock Richardson:
I think to summarize this in probably the most cliche way I could possibly summarize this is that there is no I in team. You can have your one-star player, you can even have two-star players. You need a collective group to win a championship. Some people are going to make more money than others, there's no doubt about that, and I don't think there's anything wrong with getting opinions from some of your athletes, if not all of them. The challenge is when you give people too much power and you give them an inch, they like to take a mile. And that is where I'm going to leave this conversation for the day. That is the end of our show for this week. I would like to think Josh Watson, Cam Jenkins. I'd also like to thank our technical producer, Marc Aflalo. Tune in next week because you just never know what happens when you enter The Neutral Zone. Have a great week, and we'll talk to you next week.