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The Neutral Zone

Brock Richardson and his panel of sports experts engage in a lively roundtable discussion about Parasports and professional sports news and newsmakers.

The Neutral Zone

Brock Richardson and his panel of sports experts engage in a lively roundtable discussion about Parasports and professional sports news and newsmakers.

Para-Hockey Extravaganza - March 21, 2023

Audio:
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Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
What's going on? It's time for another edition of The Neutral Zone. I am indeed your host, Brock Richardson, and today, as always, we have a jampacked show. We're going to be joined by Nicco Cardarelli, who is the founder and creator of ParaSport.TV. Plus, I went to watch para ice hockey on the weekend, and I am very frustrated with what I see on the ice from Team Canada. We'll get into all that and much, much more. You never know what shenanigans we get into. I'm joined by Claire Buchanan and Cam Jenkins. Let's get into our headlines.

Audio:
Neutral Zone headlines.

Cam Jenkins:
With March Madness off and running, we thought we would share some Canadian statistics for you surrounding the event. There will be 27 women and 24 male athletes representing Canada during the event.

Brock Richardson:
New York Mets' closer, Edwin Diaz, has torn his patellar tendon. Say that five times fast. I promise you would never get through it. And he is expected to miss the entire season after hurting his right knee while celebrating a victory in the World Baseball Classic. Diaz is expected to undergo surgery later this week. It's unfortunate when you see scenarios like this take place, especially when you consider it was during a celebration and had nothing to do with the field of play, but thems the breaks of sport and injuries. We wish Mr. Diaz nothing but the best in his recovery and we hope that the New York Mets will be able to withstand such a grave injury.

Claire Buchanan:
Carson Briere, who is the son of Philadelphia Flyers' interim general manager, Danny Briere, has been suspended from his college hockey team, pending an investigation launched after a video posted on social media showed him pushing an unoccupied wheelchair down a staircase. Yes, we have the incident itself as both a shock but a feeling all too familiar for disabled folks, but on top of that, we have an accessibility issue that the building they were in didn't have a bathroom on the main floor, so the owner of the unoccupied wheelchair had to be carried down the stairs to use the facilities. This just goes to show the way that people with disabilities are treated, and it needs to change.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, I totally agree with you, Claire, and one day, hopefully, I believe. I'm a Disney kind of guy, and I believe in miracles, and I really hope that the disabled community doesn't get seen as second-class citizens one day. FIFA announces they have more than tripled their budget for the Women's World Cup. In 2019, the budget was $30 million. In 2023, it's announced the budget will be $110 million. I think that is fantastic that they are doing that because so many more people are watching the women's game, and there's no reason why advertisers or companies aren't spending their marketing and advertising dollars towards women because there's so many people watching it now. Really glad to see that this is happening.

Brock Richardson:
Those are your headlines for this week. As we've done at this point in the show the last couple of weeks, we're going to have a discussion, and it stems from the incident with Carson Briere. I think you both eloquently gave your thoughts and feelings. What do you think is worse in this situation? Do you think it's worse that there's no bathroom on the main level or the actions of one Carson Briere? Cameron, it was not your headline, so give me your thoughts first.

Cam Jenkins:
Well, they're both terrible at the end of the day. Saying that having a bathroom, that is, in a lot of buildings, because a lot of buildings... Let's be real, they were built 50, 60 years ago, when that wasn't a thought, so it would be nice if the owners of the building were able to put a bathroom up top, but I understand for a lot of owners, especially after COVID, it is very hard for them to have the money to be able to put out for something like that. I think it's a heck of a lot worse about Briere and him just throwing down the wheelchair because that is an extension of a person's body, and they need that and able to move around, and without that, they're not able to do that.
However, if you don't have a disabled person in your life, you don't understand all that it entails, and then you add alcohol into that, and it shouldn't be an excuse, but hopefully, with the way social media is and this going viral, more and more people will be educated. And unfortunately, we just have to keep educating people until things get better.

Claire Buchanan:
Yeah, you said it perfectly, Cameron. People in the disabled community often feel exhausted from constantly having to advocate for ourselves and other people, and we could have a whole show, probably, dissecting this whole situation because there's so many layers to it. Yeah, representation... Does this kid even have any contact in and around disabled folks? Who his dad is, I'm sure that himself went through inclusion courses and stuff like that, being at the level of hockey that he was at.
And again, yeah, the buildings themselves... It's definitely a long process to update your building that you already have, to add and change stuff to make it accessible. Yes, it takes a while and there's permits and stuff, and there's a lot of businesses out there that are willing to do that and want to do that, but I think, at the end of the day, it shows that people aren't having enough conversations about what's going on and how we treat people, because that shouldn't even come across someone's thought of, "Hey, I'm going to push this wheelchair down a flight of stairs." It's mind-boggling to know that that is what people think of when they see mobility devices.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, I think part of this conversation is becoming bothersome, and not part of this particular conversation, but the idea that there's not enough representation in the person's life. I understand that, and I've heard this beyond this conversation, but I think, now that we're in 2023, I think you should have enough of an awareness of what's around you and who's around you and the value of a wheelchair. And I'm not just talking about value as in cost. I'm talking value as in use, purpose, all those things.
And I just think that it's an easy answer for society to say, "Well, he doesn't have enough representation." No, I think there's enough people in the world and around you, no matter what your circumstance is, to know right and wrong about pushing a wheelchair down the stairs. And the conversation really needs to end there, and the apology and all that from his father... That's all well and good. I just think, if you are sorry about it and recognize that you did wrong afterwards, you should have recognized that you did wrong before you did it, so that's where I stand on this topic. And, yeah, I just hope the conversation changes very quickly. With that, if you want to get ahold of us on Twitter, here's how you can do so.

Audio:
And welcome back to The Neutral Zone AMI Broadcast Booth.
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And we are set to get this ballgame underway, the first pitch brought to you by Brock Richardson's Twitter account, @NeutralZoneBR.
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First pitch, strike. And hey, gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan for The Neutral Zone? Find her at @NeutralZoneCB. And there's a swing and a chopper out to second base, right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base for a routine out. And fans, there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from The Neutral Zone at @NeutralZoneCamJ and @JWatson200. Now, that's a winning combination. And this organ interlude is brought to you by AMI Audio on Twitter. Get in touch with The Neutral Zone. Type in @AMIAudio.

Brock Richardson:
Nicco Cardarelli is the founder of ParaSport.TV and is also the play-by-play guy for the Canadian Blind Hockey Championships, which are held this year from March 25th to the 27th. He joins us now to preview the championships. Nicco, nice to have you along with us, and it's the first time you're joining us on our YouTube podcast. How are you?

Nicco Cardarelli:
I am great, Brock. Thank you for having me on. I love the new format, the new digs, so to speak. Love your setup, and it's great to join you once again, my friend.

Brock Richardson:
Yes, and I love the Leaf jersey in the background. I appreciate that you also share my pain as being a Leaf fan, as many of us do in the Toronto area.

Nicco Cardarelli:
That, and I have a gig with them tonight, so it's a little bit... but, yes, I do bleed blue, so I do feel your frustration and your pain, but this is the year. Come on, boys.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, this is the year, totally. This is the first time you're joining us on our YouTube podcast platform, which we know has a new audience and a new way for people to catch us, so can we start by talking about how you got involved with the Canadian Blind Hockey Organization?

Nicco Cardarelli:
Yeah, so it goes back 10 years now. It's wild to think that a decade ago I made my debut on the mic with Canadian Blind Hockey at their 2013 national event. And I actually got connected to the organization through a mutual friend. I was interning at a Toronto sports radio station at the time, straight out of college, and our mutual friend knew this guy named Mark DeMontis, who is this incredible blind hockey player, and they needed a play-by-play guy for their tournament, so our friend connected us and Mark and I really hit it off. And 10 years later, he and I are still incredible friends, and I'm proud to say that I continue to do some phenomenal work with Canadian Blind Hockey and I've helped play a small role in growing what the organization and the sport has become. And it's pretty phenomenal, especially when you think about this pinnacle event, the 2023 Canadian National Blind Hockey Tournament, of course, featuring the big headline series between Canada and the USA.

Brock Richardson:
Yes, absolutely. And we're going to get in deeper on the event itself, but I just want to find out, after a decade of involvement with the organization, what does it mean to you in your heart of hearts?

Nicco Cardarelli:
Brock, it's more than just a group that I work with, more than a client and a side gig that I have, so to speak. The people in the blind hockey community really are family to me. They're brothers and sisters, and I've had the chance to get to know so many people from not only around this country but really across the globe, when we think about our American friends and our European friends. The blind hockey community is something very special and near to my heart, and I truly do feel humbled and honoured to have the role that I have and do what I do within the community because it's something very special to me and I'm not just using hyperbole here. Many of these athletes participating at this event, I know personally and I go out with regularly, grab dinners, lunches, whatever, just call, text. It's people in my life that matter to me and to be able to be a part of things here 10 years later, it's something very special.

Brock Richardson:
So when we look at the championships themselves, they're held at the iconic Mattamy Athletic Centre, which is formerly known as Maple Leaf Gardens, but to keep coming back year over year, what do you enjoy so much about the championships themselves, specifically?

Nicco Cardarelli:
I think, when I reflect on my first event 10 years ago, I didn't really know what blind hockey was. I had watched a couple of YouTube videos and sort of got a sense of, okay, they use a bigger puck, okay, there's a couple of rule adaptations, but I had never really witnessed a competitive game. And 10 years ago, my initial impression was, "Wow, these blind athletes can actually play a very competitive level of hockey." And now, when I think about where the game is 10 years later, my mind is blown, because to see the progression and the growth and the opportunity for different divisions and different groups of people to have a place in the game but also for the most elite level of play to have grown to where it is, where we now have international series, and we are coming off the Carnegie Cup, which was arguably, maybe, the most competitive elite blind hockey series that featured international players from all across the world that we've ever had.
So while I was impressed 10 years ago, if someone told me in 2013 where the sport would be today, I don't know that I could have envisioned that. And to think about where competitive blind hockey but blind hockey, as a whole, for all levels, for anybody with a visual impairment, where the sport will continue to grow 10 years from now is truly exciting and something that's pretty wild to think about because, again, I don't think we could have predicted where we are 10 years prior, so it's pretty amazing.

Brock Richardson:
For sure, and I remember the first time that I got to broadcast alongside you, with connection with AMI. They never had the Canadian-US Series. It was all just different divisions, and it's so good to see that there's a national team in the sport and Canada-US has their own rivalry in blind hockey, as does a lot of the Canada-US rivalries in all of sports. And it's nice to see that transition into the game of blind hockey, because no matter what sport you play, we are bitter rivals when it comes to the sporting world, and there's just no denying that. Let's chat about the specific divisions. Can you break down the divisions for us that we're going to be seeing this year at the event itself?

Nicco Cardarelli:
Yeah, so it's a truly exciting slate of games that are coming up, and I'm actually just pulling up all the divisions because I don't want to misspeak here, but obviously it all culminates... Well, I guess there's a few ways, depending on where you're coming from, what may be the most premier event to you. Last year, obviously, it was a historic event with the Women's Division. And once again, the Women's Blind Hockey Showcase game will be back for the 2023 Canadian National Blind Hockey Tournament, and that's a big one. That'll end up going at 1:30 p.m. on the opening day, Friday, March 24th, but everything really gets going with the International Series, when Canada takes on Team USA. That gets going at 11:00 a.m. The Youth Division has a skate prior to that at 9:30 a.m. on the Friday, so I believe we've got a total of five divisions.
We've got the International Series. We've got the Open Division, which is going to have four teams competing there. We've got the Low Vision & Development Division, the Youth Division, and the Children's Division, so, yes, five divisions. It's going to be a truly spectacular series and event. Of course, the Women's Blind Hockey Showcase game, as well. That's going to be one of the headline events. I've talked to so many of the players leading up to this and there's this palpable excitement across the community, regardless of whether you're playing for the national team in that Canada-USA series or you're in the Low Vision & Development Division, of course, even the kids, the children and youth. They are so amped up and so excited for the big weekend. I know it's going to be phenomenal hockey across the board, and it's going to be something that you want to tune into.

Brock Richardson:
When we look at the Canada-US Rivalry Series and we think about the Youth Division and every other division that you just told us about, how do you think that Canada-US rivalry helps progress the game for those that aren't involved? It's got to be helpful for everyone to see where they can get to, even from one division to the next.

Nicco Cardarelli:
I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly there. It gives players in all levels of blind hockey a pathway to the national program. And whether you are a five-year-old girl or a 34-year-old male, you may have aspirations to play with the national team and you may be able to accomplish your goal because we have female players on both the Canadian and the American teams. We have male players ranging from as young as 16 to as old as in their 60s playing for the respective national teams, so it's a pretty incredible thing that has come out. And I don't know if it was an unintended consequence or something that was hoped to have happened, but either way, it's culminated where everybody who has that aspiration to want to represent their nation playing blind hockey, there's a pathway to do that. We get that comment all the time.
I talk to so many players who say they watch the game and their favourite hockey player... And we're not talking blind hockey player. We're talking across the board, NHL, AHL, ECHL, blind Hockey. Their favourite hockey players are blind hockey players, guys like Jason Yuha, Kelly Serbu, Mark DeMontis, Alex Angus MacEachen. There's so many players, and of course, that's not to mention the female players as well, Amanda Provan, who had a spectacular series in Indiana. I think, regardless of where you're in the game, if you aspire to wear that national team jersey, you can get there, and there's so many role models now and pathways, as you mentioned, for players to achieve their goals.

Brock Richardson:
I think sometimes we see situations where you feel like the national team is over there, in that it's something that we don't see in front of us. And I know in my para career, you wanted to see it in front of you. And so when you got a chance to compete against the national team or even see it, it helps you really look at it and say, "This is where I can get to." So kudos to the Canadian Blind Hockey Organization for what they've done in putting it on showcase and around and surrounding all these other divisions.

Nicco Cardarelli:
Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. All the work that goes on behind the scenes by Matt, by Luca, by the countless volunteers, by the board members, by the sponsors, everybody, of course, the players as well, the community as a whole. Again, I think it's all a testament to the growth and where things have gone, so completely agree.

Brock Richardson:
There are always new players participating in this event. Can you talk about some of the ones you have your eye on specifically?

Nicco Cardarelli:
So maybe one of the most exciting players, and I haven't actually had a chance to chat with him yet to confirm if he's coming to nationals, but Liam O'Callaghan was a phenom at the Carnegie Cup. For his first competitive blind hockey series, he was spectacular. Nothing short of spectacular, and I think he's a player that the general community will want to keep tabs on.
In terms of players who I know will be at nationals, maybe making their debut or players to keep an eye on, there's a couple of young Ice Owls coming up. I know Nick has had a fantastic season for the Ice Owls, so you'll want to keep tabs on his play. I believe he'll be in the Open Division. And I know there's a number of young players coming out of the west coast, as well, and a few from out east. I know Brandon Joy... Once again, we have heard of Brandon before. He's always been a solid player, but he's coming into his own as a young man now. I believe he's into his 20s now, and considering how young he is, I guess he's a little bit more of a veteran at this event, but I think this is event where he could, as a young guy, really step forward.
So I think there's a lot of exciting players to keep tabs on and one of the, I guess, most exciting things about this format and having the five divisions, this big open opportunity for new players to step forward and make an impact and make a name for themselves. And that's always fun because it seems like, annually, every time we have a Canadian National Blind Hockey Tournament, we're always coming away with a couple of players, whether they're international or Canadians, that we are like, "Wow, we didn't know about them. That's the new Yuha," or, "That's the new Serbu. This is so exciting." So I'm always excited to find out who's going to make a name for themselves at Nationals.

Brock Richardson:
Hear, hear. There's always room for people to make names for themselves, and I love the... It's hard to say "underdog story" because you don't want to say that, but I love to see the people that can come out of nowhere and everybody walks away from the event and goes, "Wow, this person is going to be someone in the game." And then you, as the play-by-play guy, get to say, "I saw them when they were coming up, and now look at them. They're on the national team. They're competing. They're playing their butts off." It must be so rewarding for you to see athletes from the bottom all the way to the top again.

Nicco Cardarelli:
Yeah, as you mentioned that, I just think about my broadcast career as a whole, and I guess I've been really fortunate to call some pretty spectacular athletes, whether they were elite-level CWHL players, who then went on to Olympic success, or different para-athletes, who had success at the Paralympics. Maybe the most notable one was probably Connor McDavid when he was playing junior for the Erie Otters, and it's not rocket science to say that he was worth the price of admission, but I was doing some commentary. I was in the color commentator seat that game, and he just pulled off one of these spectacular goals, where he dangled his way through four out of the five players and beat the goalie out of his jockstrap, and just a spectacular highlight reel goal that got picked up by all the networks.
And it's like, "Yeah, that's pretty cool." I got to call a McDavid game when he was a junior, and look where he is now. He's arguably the best hockey player on the planet. Yeah, that's pretty cool, but again, to take it back to the blind hockey community, I think about the first time we found out about Jason Yuha and how the first event I called of his, I think he scored 11 goals over three games or something absolutely outrageous. I think there was one event where, early on, he had seven goals in a period, or I don't know. When you find out about those moments, and like you said, you reflect on it in retrospect, it's a pretty cool thing, for sure.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, I remember watching Jason Yuha the first time I saw him and just being eyes wide open. And it's like, "Wow, this guy has some mad, mad skill," and he's shown it at all levels. And it's really incredible to watch, even now, from afar, when he competes for the national program. On the flip side, as we talk about Jason Yuha, there are always some veterans. Who are you keeping your eye out for in the veteran category?

Nicco Cardarelli:
Well, I think, when we key in on the International Series, Team Canada against Team USA, there's a couple of key players for both teams to key in on. And let's start with team USA, and it all starts with their captain, Tim Kane. He leads the way on and off the ice. He is the backbone and the heart of that team. Everything flows through him, and I know he's super amped for this series, but there's a couple other big factors, as well, for Team USA, including their big man goaltender, Doug Goist. He is a big body between the posts. He has worked so hard and he has come such a long way in his puck tracking and his lateral movement. I know he's a top-class, world-class goaltender. It's just a question of volume of shots, and does he get the defensive support in front of him, but Doug Goist is, no doubt, an X factor for Team USA in this series.
And then you got to look at a couple of their young and up-and-coming players, guys like Anthony Ashbaugh, Brock Kitterman, Luke Miller out of Chicago. I know there's some other big names for Team USA, Daniel Belding. I'm not sure if he's coming up. If he is, watch out for him. Team USA has players. It's just, do they have the depth to go head-to-head against this Canadian team, which has this unbelievable mix of youth and veteran experience, guys like the Captain, Kelly Serbu, Jason Yuha. We talked about him already, guys like Mark DeMontis and AMac, guys who have been there countless times, but then there's some young players, guys like [inaudible 00:28:22] Raymond out of Montreal. He is one of, arguably, the most exciting young players on this Canadian national team, and then there's the depth in goal for Team Canada, Oliver Pye, Joey The Wall Cabral, and Lorne Webber. All three goaltenders could be starting goalies for any international blind hockey team in the world. Canada happens to have three of the best in the world, and they all share the crease. Any of those guys can steal a series, let alone a game. It's going to be one heck of a series between Team Canada and Team USA.

Brock Richardson:
If people have never seen blind hockey and they've never tuned in, why should they? Tell me, for someone new, why should they tune into ParaSport.TV to see and watch it?

Nicco Cardarelli:
You are going to have your mind blown, in terms of whatever your perception, when you hear the words "blind hockey," whatever image comes to mind. And then when you witness it, whether it's in person or viewing it through the livestream broadcast on ParaSport.TV, your mind is going to be completely blown away. And again, it doesn't matter what division you're watching because, I'm telling you, some of the most inspiring and exciting and fun hockey that we witnessed that weekend is in the children's division. When you get players as young as three years old on the ice scoring goals and going nuts with cellys and showing the true love of the game or whether you're tuning into that elite level play where it's Canada-USA and you can feel the tension and the excitement and the pride and the passion that the players have just by watching, hockey, as a sport, is something so special.
And when you have another layer to it, beyond just the physical performance of the game, when you factor in what all the players have overcome in their personal stories to get to this point, to be on the ice, despite living with a visual impairment, and then to witness the quality and the potential and the tangible product, when you see that elite level play it's honestly mind-blowing. I don't think there's another way to describe it, other than it will blow your mind in the most positive way.
And we always say, you come out for one, you'll be hooked for life. People who come out and witness this event, whether it's through a livestream broadcast or coming in person, they tune in and they come out again and again and again because there's something powerful and there's something special about the sport of blind hockey, and the only way to experience that is to be a part of it. And you can do that by tuning into the broadcast or coming out to the Mattamy Athletic Center, March 24th to 26th, for the Canadian National Blind Hockey Tournament. And of course, again, we're streaming live on ParaSport.TV through the Canadian Blind Hockey YouTube channel.

Brock Richardson:
Nicco, thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview. We greatly, greatly appreciate it, and we'll have you on again soon.

Nicco Cardarelli:
My pleasure. All the best, and I hope to see you there that weekend, my friend.

Brock Richardson:
That was Nicco Cardarelli, who previewed the upcoming Canadian Blind Hockey Championships, held in downtown Toronto at the Mattamy Athletic Centre from the 24th of March to the 26th. If you like this interview or anything else you've heard on the program, here's how you can get ahold of us by voicemail.

Audio:
Hey, if you want to leave a message for The Neutral Zone, call now, 1-866-509-4545, and don't forget to give us permission to use your message on the air. Let's get ready to leave a voicemail.

Brock Richardson:
You're going to see a new theme beginning this week, and that is titling our episodes. This week's episode is called Para Hockey Extravaganza because we chatted about some blind hockey with Nicco Cardarelli, and now we're going to chat a little bit about para ice hockey. And I want to tell you, first and foremost, that I had the opportunity to go this past weekend and watch Canada and the United States take on each other in a three-game series. First game, won nothing. Seems pretty simple. It was in overtime, all good. Second game, seven to three. The third game was the one that I attended, and the final score was two to one. Had the following observations.
Canada is being outplayed at all positions. They are just simply faster. Canada's strategy seems to be dump and chase, but they are unable to chase the puck before the United States is able to get there first. Their strategy on a face-off just baffles me to no end, although I've begun, as we record this, to understand a little bit as to why they're doing it this way, but both of their defensemen are outside of the blue line on a face-off, which is why, I think, they're basically admitting, "Look, we know you're faster than us. We need a little bit of a headstart," all that to be true.
And I just find that when they're on a power play, it's fine while they're in the zone. The second they dump it out, they're unable to get it back in again and set up their power play. I have grave concerns about where we are as a nation in para ice hockey, and I think sometimes you need to just acknowledge the fact that, right now, as we sit here, the United States Men's Hockey program is just simply better than Canada at most positions on the ice. Now that I have finished my rant for the segment, I want to get both of your thoughts on what I've said, the results you've seen. Cameron, go first.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, I think I've said on the show before as far as I think Canada is a little bit slower, especially on the forecheck. The United States, they're phenomenal at the forecheck in getting in there and getting the puck. I think that they can't necessarily do the stretch passes. They're going to have to work their way out of their own zone and get into the other person's zone, and then they're going to have to do quick passing. If they're not going to be able to be quick, I think they're going to have to do a lot more passing in order to get it on goal, because even though they may not be super quick on their skates, they can certainly have quick, short passes and maybe be able to do it that way.
The only other thing is it really depends on the type of disabilities, I think, as well because... And I could be wrong, but I believe that the Americans... They have a lot of amputees on the team, and I don't know if Team Canada has as many amputees. And that makes a huge difference as far as being able to use your body to be able to go quicker or to be able to do certain moves or skating around, compared to a person that might have spina bifida or CP or something along those lines, so I think that would be another way, is you're just going to have to go to the grassroots and keep recruiting people, trying to get people to get on the team that are very fast, and for the current players, work with the coaches or try to get coaches that they can work on their speed, if possible, or if the speed isn't necessarily there, maybe they have some people that are really good positionally, and I think that can make up for if you're not a super quick skater, as well.

Claire Buchanan:
Yeah, you had some great points, Cameron. I was at the first game on Wednesday, and that is the game that ended in a one, nothing win in overtime. And I have to say that, in comparison to the past few years, that was probably the best defensive effort that I've seen from Team Canada. As a core, they did a great job clogging up the middle and the angling was great, and it was a physical game. I, for one, don't seeing our captain in the penalty box for fighting twice. And in that game, they very much could have won that game, but the shots on net were 35-6, and then the next game, pretty even for shots on goal, 36-30, and then game three, again, kind of a landslide with the US, 23-4.
And I agree with you, Brock, that they are being outplayed in every position, except for goalie. Larocque kept them in that series as much as he could. And when you're faced with 94 shots over three games and your guys are only putting up 40 shots, and like you alluded to, those shots are coming off of dumping, chasing, and hoping something comes out of it, instead of having a set way of entering the offensive zone. And, yeah, I wish I could have caught the other two games, but from what I saw is that they are getting better defensively. And at the end of the day, I think, that, yes, they've been playing against the same guys for close to 16 years now, like Declan Farmer and Brody Roybal. They've been playing against these guys. They know how they play, and it should be being better positionally, like you said, Cam. Yes, they're more agile and they are faster, but I think that we need to be better positionally, so that we have a system defensively.
And I keep saying it at every level. Yes, I love a physical game, but can we take our focus off throwing punches and put some shots on it? You guys aren't putting any goals up, and you guys are throwing fists. So, yeah, I think the focus just needs to shift to having a better plan defensively and executing it, because we do have a very younger team. We had guys retire and bringing fresh faces in, and these guys are young. They're young guys that can train harder and keep up with these guys, so I'm hoping that this is... The game that I saw, I'm hoping that that is a showing of where they can start and continue to be consistent because they very much could've won that game, but if they didn't have the goalie that they did, it would've been a very different game.

Cam Jenkins:
And you make a great point, Claire, as far as the defensive, as well. If you play a defensive game or a trap game, if you're [inaudible 00:40:28], you need to play that defensive trap game, where you have three players up on the center line, so it's hard for them to gain the zone, and then you have one person back, so you make it tough for them to get through, and then you have the one defenseman that's far back to go in to be able to get it. So they almost have to play a four up and maybe one back when that happens, so it's harder for them to get into the offensive zone and their defenseman has our defense... Sorry, Canadian defenseman has more time to be able to go back and get it. So you make a great point about that. They need to play more of a defensive or trap game when the other team is so much... Well, I won't say "so much," but it is quicker than you.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. And again, thank you, Claire, for clarifying that poor Dominic Larocque got put in "every position," and I did not mean "every position" because Dominic Larocque was outstanding in the game that I watched, and all three of them, to be perfectly honest. I think, number one, the United States is basically saying, "Well, we'll give you those long stretch passes that might only hit once, twice." The ones that hit during the game I watched is... There were two of them, and both times, they had guys who were in their offensive zone from the United States having to go all the way back, but they were able to catch them before they even got to the dots close to the goalie. And so the United States is knowing that they're faster, knowing that they're able to do that.
And secondly, I'm a little bit concerned about Canada's stamina and I'll tell you why, because in the last game, when they got scored on with 1.7 seconds left on the clock, the game was tied, and then it became not a tie anymore. And at the end of the game, all I saw were people just sort of diving and hoping that pucks hit in the right places, so it stayed out of the net. I get it, but I think there needs to be, as Cameron pointed out, more of a position focus, rather than, at the end of the game, let's just hope that we get to overtime here and hope that it all goes well, because I don't necessarily agree that that's the best strategy in the world. Claire?

Claire Buchanan:
Yeah, absolutely. I think, if we go back to our interview with Anthony Gale, I think he brought up a fantastic point of having more staff that have experience playing the game at a high level. We can bring in all the coaches we want that have experienced coaching in the NHL or the OHL and great resumes, but they don't know what it feels like to be in a sled. They don't know what it feels like, and the biggest difference between standup hockey and sledge hockey is how the teams play defensively. You can't skate backwards, so it's a very different way of defending. And you have to be really good at angling, and that's a big part of sledge hockey as a defensive core. And we've seen, all across sports, it doesn't matter what sport we're playing, is when teams focus on how they're going to play defensively, that's where they see the success. That's where you see the teams winning the World Series and the NHL Stanley Cup, and it's the teams that really know how to lock down an entire team.
And it's not because they're faster or bigger. It's just they're being smarter about how they approach players. And this one of the things that I said in discussions about the games this past week, is that everyone was talking about Brody Roybal, and, yeah, great player, and he is one of those guys that can... Because of his sled and the way his body is built, he can shoot from any angle, facing any direction, because he has no legs in his way. Cool, but he didn't use his left hand at all for stick handling, shooting. He's a majorly one-sided, right-handed stick handler and shooter, and those are the details right there. Hey, okay, we don't let him go right. You know what I mean? We make him go left every time, and those are the kind of things, I think, that little details like that will make a big difference.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, you make a great point there, Claire, about the left hand. I remember when I... Well, I mostly played goalie, but when I wasn't being a defenseman, that was taught to us, as far as making sure that you use both hands, so that's another great point that you bring up in regards to that. In regards to the coaching you had mentioned, I believe, that you've got to get coaches that understand the game, which I agree with. At that level though, I'm just wondering if para-ice hockey has been around long enough to have some of those para-ice hockey players be able to be coaches, because a lot of them have just retired, and then it comes down to money as well. If it's a full-time job, are you being paid as a full-time coach or full-time job? And if the money's not there, a lot of people can't necessarily do it, but that's just speculation on my part because I don't know how much a coach is paid at that level of hockey for the para ice Canadian team, so I wonder about that too, if more and more players, as they start to retire, if they will be the hockey coach. It'd be interesting to see.

Brock Richardson:
To your point there, Cameron, about the hockey coach, I literally got to sit down with Greg Westlake at the Canadian Paralympic Committee Summit, which you'll see these interviews be run on this program and others over the coming weeks. The first one will be the first week of April. We're going to run the first one, but as part of my conversation, and I don't mean to spoil it, but I want to bring it up here, but as part of my conversation with Greg Westlake, I asked him, flat out. I said, "If Hockey Canada came to you and they said, 'Do you want to do this? Do you want to get behind the bench?'" he said he would consider it. However, the challenge would be, does he know that he's a good hockey player and a good coach? I don't think those two things translate to the same thing, and that's part of the thing, but I think, if you're going to ask anyone to do this, you're going to turn to players and say, "Hey, do you want to do this?"
This hasn't gone well since 2006, from the perspective of a gold medal at the Paralympic games, but at some point, we have to turn to the Greg Westlakes and the Billy Bridges and the Brad Bowden, who, by the way, they miss all three of those players mightily with the skill level that was provided in those three players. But at some point, when you played a game for 20 odd years, you have to retire and you have to say, "I'm going to move on to other endeavours and see where life takes me." Now, Cameron, to that point, I want to ask you this point-blank question. As an athlete, when and if you know that a team is outplaying you and you are just simply better, can you admit, maybe not publicly, but can you admit that team... And cite the sport. I don't care which one it is. Can you admit that that team is better than you, or are you taught to toe the line of, "No, we got to get better. We got to get better"?

Cam Jenkins:
I think that, publicly, you have to say, "We are going to get better. We're going to get better." And even internally, in a private moment, you can say, "Yes, they are a better team." However, you also always have to be able to find solutions or be solution-oriented to try to beat that team, because even if a team's really fast, are you able to clog up the neutral zone, no pun intended? [inaudible 00:49:04]-

Brock Richardson:
I like the pun, actually. I'm quite happy with it.

Cam Jenkins:
... intended, so there you go. Are you going to clog up to the neutral zone, so it's harder for them to get back, and then have your fastest player on defense, so they can actually go get the puck and bring it back up the ice and go back the other way and find a way to beat that speed? I'm not a coach myself, and I know a little bit about why I played para-ice hockey. I probably keep saying sledge hockey. For a lot of years, I've watched hockey for a lot of years, and I do know that you do have to have a good defensive game against a really speedy team, so I think there's a way that you can beat a team, and you have to have that positive outlook in order to be able to do that and get a game plan. If the game plan's not working, well, then you've got to find a game plan that works.

Brock Richardson:
Claire, you live and breathe this situation. And I might be putting you on the spot, but can you admit... As an athlete, can you say, "That team's just better than us," and just try to be better, or does it have to be, "We have to toe the company line and say, 'No, we need to get better'"?

Claire Buchanan:
It's got to be both. You got to be really honest with yourself and with your teammates in that locker room of, "Hey, man, this feeling sucks, losing against these guys over and over and over again. I know what that feeling feels like," and you have to be honest about it. And that's the only way you can move forward from it, is if you don't accept that they're just better right now, you can't find the solutions on how you're going to change that. And on the other end of it, you need to also start thinking and doing things that you haven't done before so that you get different results. And that comes all the way down from coaching, all the way down to players and staff and, yeah, you got to try different things and maybe ways that you haven't played before. And who knows, maybe it might need to switch up some guys in different positions, maybe not cut some people, but move them around and see where they fit better.
Like Cam said, maybe our fastest guy on the team... I don't know who that is right now. Maybe they need to be part of the defensive core for right now, and then work on being both a defensive, offensive player. I know that the women's team has succeeded with having players that can do both. With sledge hockey, just like working on both of your hands because you need to use both of them, unless you're Brody Roybal, apparently, but you need to have a complete game. You know what I mean? And I think that's where their younger core excites me a lot right now, is that, yes, there's a lot of inexperience with a chunk of the Canadian National Team right now, but the younger guys that are on the team right now are really good for being that young.
And I hope that that's able to turn things around, because, other than the second game, where it was just a scoring frenzy for both sides, it was close games. It came down to the last second of the game or it went into overtime, and it gives us that feeling of, a couple Paralympics ago, that's where all the games went to. We always knew that it was going to go either into overtime or down to the wire, kind of thing. And I'm hoping that we're getting closer back to that because our last showing at the Paralympics with a 5-1 loss in the gold medal game, I think, was our biggest gap in a game of that magnitude. So I am hoping that we're swinging on the way forward but hopefully bringing back some things that worked really well for us in the past, as well.

Brock Richardson:
For sure, and I think you really have to look at this and say, "We, as an organization, as athletes, have to adapt, and we have to do things that are not in our comfort zone," as you both alluded to, maybe putting someone on different positions, shuffling the deck a little bit, because what has happened lately hasn't worked. Not winning a gold medal at the Paralympic Games in Canada's game since 2006 is just simply not acceptable and saying, "Well, we've won a world championship since then," yeah, that's great and wonderful, but as Canada, we want to see that gold medal wrapped around our necks, and to do that, we have to be a little uncomfortable from time to time.
That is the end of our show for this week. I would like to thank Cam Jenkins, Claire Buchanan. I'd also like to thank Mark Guffalo, who is our technical producer. Our podcast coordinator is Ryan Delehanty. Tune in next week, because you just never know what happens when you enter The Neutral Zone. Be safe and be well.