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Are you ready? Let's go.

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From AMI Central.

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Now start playing in the neutral zone.

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Here's a pitch on the way. 36 yards for the win.

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This...

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Here comes the big chance, the shot.

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Is...

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Is this the tiger.

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The Neutral Zone.

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Home run. This is as good as it gets.

Speaker 1:
Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson.

Brock:
What's going on? It's time for another edition of The Neutral Zone. I am indeed your host, Brock Richardson. I'm alongside Cam Jenkins and Claire Buchanan. And sometimes we tell you... Well, we tell you all the time that we're excited about the show but today, we're really excited about the show. We're joined by Patrick and Nico Lemma. Nico recently competed at the 2023 Défi National Competition and they will be along to tell us about their experience in Défi and his international competition coming up later this summer.
Plus, we're going to be talking about the interview and also telling you a little bit about the sanctions that have been placed on the Niagara Ice Dogs of the Ontario Hockey League and our perspective on that as well, getting you up to speed on the NBA playoffs as well. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Again, I'm alongside Claire Buchanan and Kim Jenkins. Let's get into our headlines.

Speaker 2:
Neutral Zone headlines.

Cameron:
Swimming Canada announced the 2023 World Para Swimming Championships Team is heading to Manchester this summer. Of the 21 athletes who are named to the team include World Record holder Aurélie Rivard, who will lead the squad with racing starting July 31st to August 6th.

Claire:
Wheelchair Rugby Nationals concluded this past weekend and we send out a huge congratulations to Team Ontario who not only took home gold in division one but also division two. I was there personally and it was my first experience seeing wheelchair rugby live in person and I got to tell you, it is one of the most fast-paced, physical, and loudest games I've ever seen.

Brock:
Karolina Wisniewska and Josh Vander Vies have been named co-chef de mission for Chile 2023 Parapan Am Games and the Paris 2024 Paralympic Games. I'm really excited about this one. I got to compete alongside Josh Watson as a boccia athlete for a number of year... Sorry, I got to compete alongside Josh Vander Vies for a number of years and it was really great to see him grow in his career. He won a bronze medal at the Paralympic games and I'm sure him and Karolina will do a wonderful job. We are hoping to have one of them, if not both of them on down the line. Congratulations to both of you.

Claire:
Darryl Sutter has once again been relieved of his duties with the Calgary Flames. Flames president Don Maloney cited the fact that Sutter is a good coach and is a hard coach, but there is a shelf life for those types of coaches in today's NHL and we believe that his shelf life is over.

Brock:
Those are your headlines for this week. Recently, there was an incident in a baseball game where a fan fell from the stands during a Phillies-Red Sox game. Let's hear more from this clip.

Gefen:
A spectator fell over a protective railing and into the Red Sox bullpen in the first standing of Boston's game against Philadelphia at Citizens Bank Park Friday. The fan was taken to the trauma centre at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, according to medical personnel on the scene. The Philly said in a statement, the injury occurred when the fan reached over the railing in an attempt to retrieve a ball thrown his way, he tumbled one level from an open concourse into the Boston bullpen and right-centre field. The spectator was strapped to a backboard and removed on a stretcher. I'm Gefen [inaudible 00:04:06].

Brock:
So before I give my thoughts, I'm curious what your thoughts are on this. Cameron, start with you.

Cameron:
Yeah, that's a tragedy and there's so many people that lean over those decks to try to get a baseball and I don't know what they're going to have to do. Maybe it's a matter of putting nettings up there and nobody is allowed to be able to grab a baseball anymore because the protection of the fans should be at the utmost when thinking about when they play the game. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another thing that they could do other than putting some netting up there or plexiglass that you can still see through and put that up there because there's probably going to be a lot of large lawsuits unless it's one of those things that are on the ticket that if you do something like that, that they're not responsible and by buying the ticket, therefore you can't sue them. But from my understanding, everybody and anybody sues in the States. So that's to be determined and what's to come next. Be interesting to see.

Claire:
Well, when you go to a baseball game, I think that's one of the big things that you go into as a fan, you see it happen, you bring your glove, the kids bring their gloves, they want to catch that ball. That's part of the excitement of the game and it's unfortunate what happened. And if you look at the video and multiple stadiums, the wall that he went over was pretty tall in itself. So I think that not to take away from the excitement of possibly catching a ball, I think just adding a disclaimer of what you put yourself at risk and the risk of being at a sporting event such as baseball games and reaching for those balls.
Because I mean, the amount of fans that are in the stands and the amount of games that happen throughout the year, I think this is a very low percentage risk that actually takes place. And at the end of the day, hopefully, the guy is okay. He definitely hit his head pretty hard, so hopefully there's not too much of a recovery there. But yeah, I think it's something that the fans take as a personal risk of you're stretching out to catch that ball and sometimes it just doesn't go the way that you hope so.

Brock:
A number of years ago, there was a situation where a gentleman reached over at a baseball park and the Philadelphia Phillies baseball park is standing out to me as being the same ballpark, but I'm not 100% sure. But there was a gentleman who was a firefighter who reached over and he was next to his son, he was trying to retrieve a baseball for him and he went over the edge and fell and unfortunately succumbed to his injuries because of this. And it was from that point onward, and I've seen this kind of thing happen a handful of times where people injure themselves.
And I guess for me, my thought is, and I want quick thoughts from both of you on this is, what is the fascination over a baseball? Why are we putting ourselves at such risk to go and get a baseball? I can sort of see the thought process of, "Okay, I'm getting a baseball for my kid." Fine, I guess. But why in the end, are we putting ourselves in this position for a baseball that we can go to any store and get one? I do understand the whole argument of, "Yeah, but so-and-so hit it." Yeah, but is it really worth the risk of your life? What's the fascination on this one, Claire? I don't get it.

Claire:
Yeah, it's the thrill of the actual catch, I believe. And yeah, you can say, "Well, this ball was hit by so-and-so at this game," but again, you don't really have proof moving forward either. Unless it's signed and really authenticated, it's just kind of your word against everyone else's. It's just people going to sports and really feeding their inner child and wanting to catch that ball and hoping for the best, I guess.

Cameron:
And that's just it. I remember when I went to the baseball game at the old exhibition stadium and I was with my papa on my mom's side, my Grandpa Palate, and I caught a ball by Tony Fernandez and I've kept that ball ever since. And it's in my dresser drawer right now. Maybe I'll get it during the commercial break. But it was just a fascination of, "Oh man, I got a ball that was hit by Tony Fernandez," and Tony Fernandez is one of the best Blue Jays players to ever play the game, or at least shortstop. So that was the fascination to me. But I was not in any danger because I was in the bleacher seats or wherever I was behind the plate. So I was in no danger whatsoever of falling off the second or the third or the fifth deck. So I see what the fascination is, but I don't think I would be the person that leaned over so far that I would fall off the deck. But you never know because in the moment, you just never know.

Brock:
Yeah. I've never been put in a position where I've thought to myself, "If this ball from such and such a player comes to me, am I putting myself at risk?" I mean, I went to a couple of Blue Jay games a number of seasons ago when I had a flex pack and my brother-in-law and I would go to 12, 13 games and he caught a batting practice home run. And neither of us could tell you to this day who hit the ball, but I don't think I would ever put myself in that situation. But I mean, if it was Joe Carter's home run when they won the World Series and that happened, maybe I would, but I'd like to believe that I wouldn't put myself in that level of danger.
So I just wanted to bring that to everybody's thoughts. And again, I want to make sure that we put out here that our thoughts and prayers are with the individual who hurt themselves due to this. In no way am I trivializing that. I wonder about the risk that we take in sporting events and whether at times we go too far. At this time, we'd like to tell you how to get ahold of us on Twitter. Here's how you can do it.

Speaker 6:
And welcome back to the Neutral Zone AMI broadcast booth. And we are set to get this ballgame underway. The first pitch brought to you by Brock Richardson's Twitter account @NeutralZoneBR. First pitch, strike. And hey gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Clair Buchanan from the Neutral Zone. Find her @NeutralZoneCB. And there's a swing and a chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base for a routine out. And fans, there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from the Neutral Zone @NeutralZoneCamJ and @JWatson200. Now that's a winning combination. And this organ interlude is brought to you by AMI Audio on Twitter. Get in touch with the Neutral Zone. Type in @AMIAudio.

Brock:
We are so pleased to have Nico and Patrick Lemma join the program. Nico recently competed at the Défi, which is the largest national event in Canada, and they join us today from Oshawa, Ontario to talk about Nico's success in his early career. Guys, welcome to the program. Nice to have you along.

Patrick:
Great to be here.

Nico:
Yeah, great to be here.

Cameron:
So Nico, let's start with you. Before the event started, can you maybe talk about what the feeling was like going to the largest national event?

Nico:
Going to Défi is always great. It's a great place to be. Great people, great competitors. It's always a blast.

Patrick:
I always get the joy out of walking into that arena and you're in the arena with all the courts there. It's an amazing feeling even just walking on, you hear the music and you got to get introduced in. So that always puts a smile on our face.

Claire:
Patrick, as Nico's father, but also his sports assistant, what were your expectations heading into this event?

Patrick:
Honestly, we changed a lot of the equipment leading into this, a lot of the equipment leading into this. We actually went into this event really focusing on taking notes on that so that we can prepare for Portugal, which we'll I guess talking about later on. Let's just say we exceeded all the expectations on this one. We were really just focusing on the equipment and then he just kept on giving the players a hard time and winning the game. So it was great.

Nico:
Goes to show what a lot of equipment changes can do.

Cameron:
Right on. So Nico, can you maybe talk a little bit about how you were able to manage your nerves going into an event like this one?

Nico:
Yeah, so we changed up a lot of equipment. So we were a little nervous, but we handled it by singing a song to ourselves. We can't sing it out loud, but just singing in our heads distract us from the stress.

Patrick:
Yeah, we learned in practice that if we just sang a happy song in our heads, even as we were getting stressed, either one of us kind of getting stressed, it just took our mind off the game just a little bit or took our minds off the stress and we just calmed down. I don't know if you want to tell them what song we were actually singing.

Cameron:
I was just about to ask that question because I need to be able to learn to manage my stress, so I might need that song.

Nico:
Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da.

Cameron:
Oh, that's a good one. By The Beatles, I think.

Patrick:
Yeah, we looked up the happiest... And I'm not making any opinions for anybody, but we looked up the happiest songs ever made and that was one of the top two. So we're like, "You know what? Let's sing it." I dare anybody to listen to that song and not sing it as soon as it comes on.

Cameron:
Oh, nice.

Patrick:
But it's one of those things that we... I could see him humming it to himself when we're in a high-stressing time. He's just kind of like... And I'm doing the same honestly at this point.

Cameron:
(Singing).

Patrick:
Yeah, see? There it goes.

Claire:
Well, you guys have great tastes in music. I got to say that. And it's rare to find athletes, let alone a pair that kind of get on this wavelength of just relaxing and finding a way to be in your happy place. Did that kind of put you on the mindset of, Nico, going into this competition, were you feeling right off the bat of like, "Hey, we got this, we can win this thing."? Or was it during the competition where you felt like, "I think we have this, I think can walk away winning this thing?"

Nico:
There's a lot of great players. There was a lot of great games. They were all really close. It was especially cool when we were in the semi-finals and in the call room we saw Alex and Mary Lou and Ryan, who are all really good players, it really all came down to the last shot.

Patrick:
Yeah, it was amazing to be in that semi-final room and you're looking around going, "These are the top players in Canada." At some point, you look at yourself and go, "What are we doing here?" I don't know. But I think going in with the idea that we didn't have the equipment figured out, we didn't have super high expectations. We came in with the goal of just trying to figure out what we were going to do for Portugal. I think that actually relaxed us a lot to the point where we're just like, "Hey, you know what? We came in forth. Good. Oh, wait a second, we're in the gold medal. We came a second. Good." And then it was like, "Okay, we won." But coming in with that very... I don't even say relaxed because there were obviously nerves going in each of the games, but coming in with that kind of goal definitely helped where we were just kind of like, "Okay, you know what? We exceeded everything we wanted. This is just a great tournament."

Cameron:
So Patrick, you're Nico's sports assistant and in the BC3 category, I believe you were required to have your back facing the court at all times and you must purely follow Nico's directions. So as the event rose on or grew on and you got closer to the gold medal game, how hard was it to not have any idea what's going on behind you on the court for most of the time?

Patrick:
You probably can't see it because the camera's not that great, but a lot of gray hairs, especially in here, just a lot of stress. I mean, this isn't the only national tournament he's been in or tournament he's been in. I mean, yeah, I've never watched one of his games live because I can't watch the games. Recently, I'd say probably in the last six months, eight months we've kind of grown into that player-assistant relationship where I trust him on his decisions and whatnot. So when I see him doing something, it's like, "Okay, you know what you're doing." Plus I try to play the game backwards. So I try to play the game as if I'm trying to imagine where the balls are based on the way he's playing and based on the way the other player's playing. So you see me... I sometimes count how many balls have gone out and the way he positions this ball, I'm like, "Oh, this is what's happening."
And that's why a lot of the times when you see me finally turn around and look at the court, I might have a shocked face going, "Oh, that's the way it actually looks." It's stressful, especially that gold medal game. I mean, at the end he delayed telling me that he actually won. I heard the crowd, but I wasn't sure if it was our crowd or if it was the other crowd. And I'm sitting there going... I can't talk to him. I can't even gesture to him when I'm looking at him going, "You going to tell me you won yet?"

Nico:
To be fair, it was a stressful game.

Patrick:
It was a stressful game.

Claire:
Patrick, this one's for you. For anyone who is listening to this and thinking that they could be a BC3 attendant, can you run us through a little bit about the importance of having a good rapport between the athlete and the sport assistant?

Patrick:
Personally, I think it's critical. I think having that rapport and having that kind of relationship where obviously I can't talk to Nico, but it doesn't mean that I can't read his face or I can't see his eyes or how he reacts to a shot or even how his body's reacting during competition. So knowing that... Having that relationship, he can calm me down and I can calm him down without even saying a word, saying, "Hey, I'm here for ya. I gotcha." He does the same thing to me. Sometimes when we're scrambling because there's time, he'll just look at me and go, "Dad, we got two and a half minutes, man. We're good." He'll just be like, "I know you're stressed out, we're fine. Just keep going." So I think just having that rapport is key. And having the years, obviously being my son, but learning the equipment, having being able to develop the equipment with him, now I know the equipment better than he does and I'm able to move with it. It's pretty important.

Brock:
We're joined by Nico and Patrick Lemma who are athlete and sport assistant in the sport of boccia. And we're talking about Nico's recent success at the Défi. I'm joined by Claire Buchanan and Cam Jenkins and of course you're listening and watching to the Neutral Zone.

Cameron:
So Nico, can you walk us through the gold medal game from your perspective and what worked so well for you during that game?

Nico:
Well, we already went into the game with... We had already exceeded any expectations we had had. So with the new equipment and stuff, the idea was just to put pressure on the opponent. We played it simpler because we didn't know the equipment all that well. But I mean, it worked out.

Patrick:
Yeah, that was pretty much the game plan. It was just put pressure on as early as we possibly can. And to Nico's point, we kind of threw out the strategy book and we were like, "You know what? We don't know distances so we'll just play the simple game and we'll play the one shot we do know really well," and it worked out. Just to be clear, we won't have the same weaknesses in Portugal. We're all set, we're good. We're building up that equipment. But yeah, this one was tough.

Claire:
Patrick, your wife was, what seems like, at a loss for words from her social media post after the gold medal game. And can you just, as a parent, give us a little insight on just the level of pride that you have for your son just competing at this level and winning at such a young age?

Patrick:
Listen, we are proud of him of just competing at this level, let alone what he's been able to accomplish both provincially and now nationally. I mean, it was amazing and that competition was amazing. I mean, we all walked in here thinking, again, kind of going, "All right, we'll set this up for Portugal." So when we were in that last day, I think we were all walking around in a daze going, "Is this actually really happening?"
And then after winning that gold, we were just over the moon. But I think the biggest takeaway after we calmed down in the gold medal was looking back and how proud we are of him maturing as an athlete. I mean, there were situations in that tournament where if it was two years ago, he would've stopped playing. Loud noises because he had the startle reflex. Last day was three games, a super long day, where two years ago, he wouldn't have been able to handle it. And this year he just was like, "All right, it's game time. I'm playing the next hour. I'm going to focus and just rock this out." And growing as an athlete and as a young adult, that was just... It's just amazing. That's really where we're proud of it. But obviously, we were over the moon when he shot that last shot. It was crazy.

Cameron:
It's our understanding that you're going to be representing Canada at a youth invitational event. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that event?

Nico:
Yeah, we are very lucky to be travelling with two other athletes to Portugal. It's a big honour.

Patrick:
Yeah, it's held in Portugal in July. It's the World Boccia Youth Championship. I think it... And I could be mistaken about this, so don't hold me to it, but I think it's 19 and under, 20 and under. So he's still playing individuals five years older than him, potentially more experienced. But I mean, to get that phone call and the email to basically say, "Hey guys, you're going to be wearing the Canadian flag," was just like... Yeah, there was a lot of celebration going on in the house. But then to find out who we were going with was just icing on the cake. It was fantastic.

Claire:
That's awesome. So where is the bar set going into this competition? Coming off of a gold medal, what are the expectations going into Portugal? Are you going in there saying, "We're going to whip butt," or how high is this bar set for you guys?

Patrick:
Yeah, I'm just going to say we're going to try to make the country proud. That's basically it. We're going to do what we can. It's the world youth, so we're going against the world-class players. It doesn't matter if they're young. As you can see, I mean, he won the tournament. We're going against world-class players. It's our first time going international. It's our first time travelling for years. I think he might have been three. So I mean, we've got the travel, the jet lag, the whatever to contend with. We're just happy to be going. We'll see how it goes.

Brock:
Yeah, I've got to be real honest, even though I've been removed for a little bit of time, there was no doubt that, Nico, you were going to be a really successful player, provincially to start with and then moving on to the national and international scene. And I have to tell you, when I was your age, I was doing nothing but losing 24, nothing to people. So I mean, the fact that you have matured at such a young age is incredible. So I want to wish you on behalf of all of us, best of luck in Portugal and thanks so much for doing this. As I know dealing with the media is not your favourite thing in the world to do, but we appreciate it very much and we hope to be putting you in one of our beginning headlines in a couple of weeks, or in a couple of months, I should say, with how you did in Portugal. So best of luck to you both and thank you for joining us.

Patrick:
Thank you.

Nico:
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Brock:
That was Nico and Patrick Lemma who were talking to us about their experience at the Défi and the international competition that they will be attending in Portugal in July. If you like this interview or anything else we do on the program, here's how you can get ahold of us by voicemail.

Speaker 2:
If you want to leave a message for the Neutral Zone, call now. 1-866-509-4545. And don't forget to give us permission to use your message on the air. Let's get ready to leave a voicemail.

Brock:
There are times in doing this job that certain things resonate with you differently than others. And for those that may or may not have been with us from the beginning, and if you haven't been with us from the beginning, welcome, but if you've been with us from the beginning, you would know that we have had Nico and his father on the audio version of our program, and he was actually part of one of the AMI Audio promos, Nico was way back in the day because he just spoke so well. And I have to remind myself, this kid is only 14 years old and just the way that he handles himself, the way that he comes across, it's just incredible. And Claire, I'll start with you on this one because you said it on our little mini break that this is one of your favourite interviews hands down. Can you elaborate as to why?

Claire:
His passion alone for not only being an athlete but just soaking it all in. He's just come back from one of the biggest tournaments and obviously did really well, and he already has this mental step-by-step or mental fallback that he has in his back pocket to put him back in the right mindset and get him loose and get him in a space where he's reminding himself that he's there because he loves to play the game.
And it's such a good reminder for other athletes and just people, in general, to show gratefulness and just remind yourself that you're doing this because you started a sport because you love to play the game. And I'm excited that we get to be alongside his journey and he's got a long, long future ahead of him in this game and just so much pride. There's so much pride in him and it takes you back to the times when you put that Canada flag and that maple leaf on your chest for the first time as well. He's soaking it in and his dad is too and his mom and it's so fun to see and hear. He speaks so well.

Cameron:
Yeah, he is... Both of them, Patrick and Nico, they are just so humble and you can see the excitement in both of their faces when they're talking about being at the tournament and how they did and just their attitude of the next tournament. It's like, "Okay, well, let's see where it goes." And just when they're stressed, how they talked about how they have that song, Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da that they sing in their head to calm themselves down, they have all the tips and tricks to be able to just be at even keel, which I think is very important for an athlete and a sports assistant to be at. And they have that down pat. And to have it at such a young age, that's only going to help both of them in the future. They're just a phenomenal pair and I wish them the best of luck in everything they do moving forward.

Brock:
Let me be very honest with both of you, and I said it sort of tongue in cheek. I mean, when I was Nico's age and playing that very same sport, there was no just chill attitude. There was no just pure love for the game necessarily. It was there was an end goal and I wanted to get where I wanted to get to and I ended up getting there. But I think that's sort of the one thing that we kind of look at as athletes and we kind of say, "Well, we forget that it's supposed to be for fun." And I think when you have the fun coupled with the competitive nature of sport, it just means so much. And I mean, I love the fact that they said in Portugal coming in July that who knows what's going to be, and we're competing against the best in the world.
Let me be clear that I think, and I would definitely put my money on Nico, not knowing anybody else in the world of course of that age bracket, but I would hazard to guess that Nico finishes in the top 10 at this event. This guy and his father have such a laid-back passion for this game that I think that's going to help them in the long run. And I would not be surprised that when I come back from vacation in the summer that we're going to have Nico on and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a top 10 finish, if not a medal around his neck. So just an unbelievable interview that we just had and wishing them nothing but the best. And I want to support every young athlete because opportunities like this don't come around easily and it's hard to crack rosters.
I mean, this guy got the Connor McDavid treatment of exceptional status. He'll be competing at the national championship before he's even eligible by age. Why? Because the guy just won the largest tournament in Canada. No kidding. And so to have that exceptional status is unbelievable. And the joy that his parents have is just unreal. So best of luck to you, buddy. And as I said, I know he doesn't like doing those interviews, but we are going to have him on again in July because I want to find out how this event in Portugal turns out. So thank you to you both and congratulations and all the best in your success moving forward.
And from a happy topic to one that I'm sure is going to make us all just roll our eyes once again, let me just tell you that the Ontario Hockey League has announced that two players on the Niagara Ice Dogs, including Captain Landon Cato, is going to be suspended because of violations with respect to different things that are not supposed to be. And this is just codes of conduct being mistreating, bullying, this kind of thing. And I just don't know that this helps Hockey Canada's situation because the Ontario Hockey League kind of sort of falls under all that. So your reaction to this story? Claire, start with you.

Claire:
Yeah, I mean, it's all connected. There's many different hockey leagues internationally and nationally and especially within Canada as well and they're all connected. And they have to have in that mindset of... I don't know how to put this, but the way that players are treating not only other players, but the way that they're going through life and as an athlete thinking that they will represent their sport and Hockey Canada one day in these ways is kind of mind-blowing because when I came onto any national sport, whether it was hockey or basketball, right away, you are told and shown by people who lead by example that no matter if you have that hockey jersey on or not, you are representing that club, that organization and your teammates.
And to hear that there's bullying going on within locker rooms to other teammates, still to this day, after everything that has gone on with Hockey Canada and the change that people are trying to make is disgusting at the end of the day. You would think by now that the conversations that both coaches and parents are having, because we have to know that these conversations have to have and have to happen at home as well. You're building your character and how you are viewed and how you go through life.
I don't understand why there isn't a level of respect in this sport. And it continues to show up time and time again. And I don't think that the consequences that these players and the coach and the organization were handed were enough. I really believe that the coach and the players should have been reprimanded equally. I don't think that there should have been any suspensions. I really think that it should have been, "You're out. This is not how we as a sport are going to represent moving forward." And it has to be not only at Hockey Canada, but it has to trickle down all the way down to recreational hockey as well. This is not how hockey players or athletes or human beings should be treating each other.

Cameron:
Not at all. And it's disgusting that it's... Like you said, it's disgusting that it keeps happening. Does it start with the parents? At some point in time, a child, which some of these players are, because I guess some of them are 17, 18, 16 years old and still not an adult, but I just don't think that it just lands on the parents. I think that it lands on the kids themselves and just the whole idea of what hockey is and what it has been about and the hazing and the, "You're the rookie, so we're going to do this," or "We're going to do that to you." And all of that needs to get out of the system.
And I don't know if you have to have some sort of... Like, create a position that helps to protect the players from the bullying, to have somebody walking around, kind of like a health and safety, I don't know what you would call the position, but just somebody that is there that they can go to be able to talk to human resources and without getting the fear of getting off the team or being bullied anymore.
And Claire, I 100% agree with you. If the kids or if the players are going to get suspended and kicked out of the league, which they have, from my understanding, the general manager, if they knew what was going on and they let it happen, well, they should be kicked out of the league as well. Why are they only getting suspended for two years and a hockey player is getting basically a lifetime ban or getting kicked out of the league? And I understand it to one point and it's because the players are the ones that are actually doing it. So that's why they're getting kicked out of the league. But if the general manager knew what was going on, he should be damn well out of the league as well because that's not a good person.

Claire:
No, it's up to the general manager and the coach to set that culture and have those conversations. And yes, we're now seeing changes with True Sport being involved and having those outlets of being able to reach out and have a third party involved. And that's where these third-party investigations are coming from is they're putting in place these avenues that players can reach out and say, "Hey, this is going on." Or coaches can reach out. I know over the last year with True Sport coming out, that us as athletes have had plenty of conversations of, you're allowed to speak up if you aren't feeling safe in your environment.
And I got to say, as a mom, as a of a boy that might one day say, "Hey, I want to play hockey," I can tell you for a fact that I'm going to have those conversations with him right away even before he starts sports. That's just a foundational conversation that you should be having with your kids of how to treat people with respect and if you are getting bullied or if you're seeing someone getting bullied that you're allowed to speak up and that-

Cameron:
Now, Claire, sorry trying to cut you off there, but with True Sport, is that an organization that, as an example, any hockey player from the OHL or CHL could go to if they don't feel that they can go to their own team?

Claire:
Yeah, it's a hotline in any sport. And it's in every locker room when an event is going on, it's now required to be posted in the locker room as an avenue for players, coaches, staff, anybody who feels like they're in an unsafe situation or that they're seeing someone being in an unsafe situation. So that it kind of takes the pressure off a little bit of going to a coach that you might not feel comfortable going to yet or you're new to the team, so you don't have that relationship with your teammates yet. It gives you that unbiased option of being able to speak up and feel safe speaking up.

Cameron:
Good.

Brock:
What I'm about to say is in no way excusing the actions of what we've seen in Hockey Canada and what we've seen in other sports. It's just literally a, "Hey, I'm putting this on the table to see what my two colleagues have to say." But there is something out there that we've seen quite often that a brain does not fully develop until you're in your late 20s and these folks are 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20. Does that play a factor? And if it does, then how do we manage it? Because obviously, we're not going to say, "Well, you can't play until your brain is developed," but that's just the way it is. So Claire, your reaction to the idea of brains developed and how that is like or not?

Claire:
I am currently rehabbing from a concussion myself right now, and I'm a big advocate of not putting kids in contact sport at a certain age. And I'm not a neuroscience pro, and I don't know exactly when or what age that it would be safe to start putting athletes into full contact, but I don't believe it's as a child. Yeah, their brain is still developing, and to put that at risk I think is way too big of a risk in my mind.
This might be my mom bias coming out, but there's options out there. There's non-tackle football and there's leagues with hockey that aren't full contact yet. I mean, the women's game, you see it. You don't need full contact to have an exciting sport to watch and to be successful in a sport. So I think that I don't see it changing anytime soon because as we see, hockey culture is pretty stuck in their ways. Yes, we're pulling ourselves out of the quicksand right now and out of the mud, but it's going to take a lot of effort and it's going to take time and it's going to take the right people in the right positions to be able to make effective change moving forward.

Brock:
Claire, it's my understanding you have breaking news. Where are we going with this breaking news?

Claire:
I do. Our very own from the women's para hockey team, Raphaëlle Tousignant, has just been announced as the very first woman out of Canada to make the mixed para hockey team for Canada. So moving forward, she'll be competing against, alongside the men going for the Pool A World Championship title.

Brock:
Wow. Interview down the line. I'm putting that out there right now.

Claire:
I'm shaking right now just as a teammate, the level of pride that I have right now. That's incredible. Congrats, Raph.

Brock:
Yes, congratulations. And we will have you on the program very, very soon. I'm not lying because stuff like that is really cool. Cameron, final thoughts on what we've been talking about here with what's been going on. And then I just want to briefly touch on the NBA before we wrap the show.

Cameron:
Yeah, I think a person, they should be responsible for their own actions and it doesn't matter what age they're at, especially when you're talking about bullying or hurting somebody else. I think it's an excuse to say that the brain is still developing and I really think that they should be punished and the two players have, because they're out of the leagues. You wanted quick and to the point. That's it.

Brock:
Yep. Fair enough. To end the show, I just want to... If you have been plugged into the NHL playoffs, that's cool. I understand that. I have been also plugged into that. And if there's one NBA series that you should check out, it's the Denver Nuggets and Phoenix Suns. I mean, this team, this series has just been unbelievable. And at the time of recording the series is tied two, two. And I got to be honest with you and say that Nikola Jokić and Devin Booker for their respective teams have just been going mano a mano. And I mean, Nikola Jokić went on a 13, 0 run by himself in a losing effort. Let me be very clear, in a losing effort, the guy went on a 13, 0 run. This has just been an amazing series. And if there's one series that you haven't checked out, this is one you should. Thoughts, Cameron, on this series.

Cameron:
Yeah, this series, I think that's probably one of the best ones. I was kind of enjoying the Lakers series as well because everyone had them not winning or not doing too well. But yeah, I would say that this is probably one of the best series. With all the star players that are there, the defence and how well they're doing in the game as well, I just think it's a humdinger of a series.

Brock:
Claire?

Claire:
I was a big Phoenix Suns fan when Steve Nash was there, and I am now a Phoenix Suns fan yet again. And I know that it's going to be a hard road for them, but they're putting up exciting games. I mean, to have a guy put up almost... Over 50 points, sorry, and you still can beat that team, that just shows the powerhouse that the Suns are right now. And I just hope my boy CP three, Chris Paul, gets his ring finally because that guy deserves a ring before he goes into the Hall of Fame.

Brock:
I agree.

Cameron:
Well, and what about Kevin Durant as well? He's probably or was considered one of the best players on planet Earth, Kevin Durant, but isn't there a little bit of a villain thing there because of how he got out of New York and went there? I don't know, for someone like that, that kind of weans his way onto the... I don't know if I want Phoenix Suns to win, to be quite honest with you.

Claire:
Yeah, I absolutely agree that the way Kevin Durant and a couple other players left the Brooklyn Nets was not-

Cameron:
Shady?

Claire:
Yeah, a little bit. But I enjoyed this trade. As soon as the trade happened for Phoenix, my mind went to Chris Paul and not Kevin Durant. And I'm just glad that he has the people around him to fight for a ring because like I said, I don't want to see Chris Paul go into the Hall of Fame without a ring on his finger.

Brock:
Yeah, I'll say this, too, I don't know if... When Kevin Duran had the trade and went elsewhere, I will say this, I'm really certain that Kevin Durant realized to himself, "Listen, I have to be better. I have to be a better teammate, a better human being, a better... All around in order to play basketball." And I'm seeing that. I'm not a big Kevin Durant supporter, but I have seen a difference in the way that he plays. It's no longer, "Oh, I just don't feel like playing." It's a, "Okay, I'm on a team now that expects something from me." And I think that's what we're seeing from that. And again, I just really want Kevin Durant to succeed. I know I could be on an island here, but I want Kevin Durant-

Cameron:
Certainly not on my island.

Brock:
... To succeed. The other person that I really want to succeed was Landry Shamet, who is a name that nobody really knows on the Denver Nuggets. And it's one of those names where it's like, these are people that want somebody other than the big names to win or to do well. And so if you haven't got to know Landry Shamet, you should, because he is that piece for Phoenix Suns that just did something real good. He's that secondary piece where you just kind of think, "Okay, this is a good player and he needs to be a good player to help them get through." And I think he proved that in the recent game. I might have said he's a Denver Nugget player, but in fact he does play for the Phoenix Suns. So yeah, it's just an overall good series. Final thoughts from both of you in about one minute or so. Claire, start with you.

Claire:
On the Phoenix Suns series?

Brock:
Or just NBA playoffs, whichever.

Claire:
Yeah, I don't have any want of seeing LeBron James go any further than this series. I would like to see the games be closer, you know what I mean? This past game this weekend was yet another... It was two blowouts in a row and one team had a blowout and then it flipped. I guess I want to see a little more consistency from both teams to have tighter games because I stopped watching after the first half and switched to a completely different game and caught the hockey game. I'm fixed on the Phoenix Suns series, not only because I want to see them go far, but the Lakers series is just... It seems boring to me because they're not close games.

Cameron:
Yeah, the Lakers-Warriors, like Steph Curry, he's got a lot of rings. Of course, LeBron's got some rings. He's been to the last, I don't know, 50 million finals in a row or whatever that number is.

Claire:
LeBron's been to eight, and Steph Curry's only been to six, I think, and they both have four rings. So who's the better ball player here?

Cameron:
Well, that's going to do it for this show, because that's going to take a long time to have that conversation. So I'm looking forward to that Lakers-Warrior series and I hope LeBron James does it. So there you go.

Brock:
Well, as Cameron points out, that is the end of our show, and we're not going to get into who's better right now and who's not. But enjoy the playoffs. I intentionally kept NHL off the docket today. We'll discuss that at length and next week, hopefully, we have one Canadian team that survives. But I digress and that's where we'll leave it. I would like to thank Claire Buchanan, Cam Jenkins. I'd also like to thank technical producer, Mark Aflalo, podcast coordinator is Ryan Delehanty. Tune in next week because you just never know what happens when you enter the Neutral Zone. Have a great week. Be safe. Be well.