Leading the Charge - May 30, 2023

Speaker 1:
Are you ready? Let's go.

Speaker 9:
From AMI Central.

Speaker 12:
Now, [inaudible 00:00:04] playing in the neutral zone.

Speaker 2:
Here's a pitch on the way. 36 yards for the win.

Speaker 10:
This...

Speaker 9:
Here comes the big chance the shot.

Speaker 10:
Is...

Speaker 11:
Is this the tiger?

Speaker 9:
The Neutral Zone.

Karolina Wisniewska:
Oh my God!

Speaker 13:
This is as good as it gets.

Speaker 9:
Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
What's going on? It's time for another edition of The Neutral Zone. I am indeed your host, Brock Richardson, and coming up on a program in which we are very excited to bring you, we are joined by Karolina Wisniewska and Josh Vander Vies, who have been named Canada's co-Chefs de mission for the Santiago 2023 Parapan Am games, as I try to spit that out in English, and Paris 2024 Paralympic Games.
Josh is a former Canadian Boccia player. Karolina is a former Paralympic alpine skier. We will also weigh in with our thoughts on the interview and give you some headlines, and stuff that has gone on in the mainstream sports world. Let's get into our real headlines. Beginning right now.

Cam Jenkins:
The pair of ice hockey National Championships have wrapped up and here are your results. Bronze went to Alberta, silver went to Ontario and the gold went to Quebec. Now begins the Para Ice World Championships in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan and we're going to chat a little bit more about that later on in the show.

Josh Watson:
For the second straight year, Green Bay Wisconsin will play host to the Women's World Para Ice Hockey Challenge. It runs from August 31st to September 3rd and Canada will compete against teams from Great Britain, the USA and two teams made up of players from Europe and Asia. This tournament will serve as a stepping stone to the eventual Women's World Championships taking place in 2025.

Brock Richardson:
The National Basketball League of Canada's, London Lightning win back-to-back championships as they defeated. The wins are expressed in a thrilling game seven for the sixth franchise overall title.
We congratulate the London Lightning and I, for one, love this basketball league. It is not well represented in most of Canada. London is one of the higher represented organizations, as you can tell. They've won six championships. I would like to see this league better represented across Canada.

Cam Jenkins:
Team Canada wins the men's World Hockey Championships with a 5-2 victory over Germany. This marks their fourth title in eight years. However, I think a big kudos also needs to go to Germany because it's been 90+ years since they've won a gold medal and they made it all the way to the gold medal game. Congratulations also goes out to Germany.

Brock Richardson:
70 years if you look at the medals when they have last won a medal period. So Germany deserves a lot of credit for what they have accomplished. Those are your headlines for this week. As we just discussed, the World Hockey Championships and I've got to be honest with you guys, that is one of the events that really sneaks up on me and I kind of go, "Oh yeah, the World Hockey Championships is happening." Until such time Canada sneaks into the gold medal game. And I go, I guess I should tune into this on a Sunday afternoon. Let's see what happens. Did either of you catch much of this? If so, what were your thoughts overall? Josh, I'll start with you.

Josh Watson:
Well, in my particular case, unfortunately, I did not see a minute of any game. I just found that with work and sports and other sports that were on TV, that I find myself kind of hockey'd out by the time this tournament rolls around.
It's always a fascinating tournament to me to see how the team is made up and how they do. But I just find that there are too many other sporting options and I've already devoted September through to March or April to the NHL, so I don't tend to pay much attention to this unfortunately.

Cam Jenkins:
For me, as I've said on the program before, once the Leafs are out, hockey is dead to me. However, that does not count if Team Canada is playing for the most part. I did catch maybe 10 or 15 minutes of the gold medal game, but Grandpa Cam decided to have a little nap and I missed it.
I guess as you get older, the more sleep you need. But a tournament like this, it's not as exciting as the World Junior Hockey Championships or the World Cup of Hockey or the Olympics because that's when the best come to play. It's not necessarily the best players that come for Team Canada or possibly any of the other teams because the NHL playoffs are still going on.
To me, it's not best on best and that's why it doesn't interest me as much as the World Junior Hockey Championships in December because they stop the league so the players can go and they also stop the NHL for the players to go compete in the Olympics. It can be best on best.

Brock Richardson:
Now, I don't know if this is doable, but if this was put at a different time of year when this would be, I'm open for suggestion, but if this was put at a different time of year, would this interest either of you anymore, any less? Give me your thoughts. Cam.

Cam Jenkins:
I guess that if it's a different time of year where the best on best can play and I'm not sure when that would be. That would interest me, but only if it's best on best and you can pick from any player and I just don't know when that would be because if you do it in the summertime, September or August when the cup finals are over, but then you have training camp and so I just don't know when you would do it, but if it was in August, say, the beginning of August, first week of August and it's best on best, yeah, I'd watch it.

Josh Watson:
Yeah, I agree with you Kim. I just find that for me, it's not a matter of the hockey not being the same calibre. It's just a matter of the NHL playoffs are going on, the soccer is on, you've got baseball is up and running and we're past the first few weeks of getting warmed up when it comes to baseball.
What else is going on? You've got NBA going on right now. There's just so many options that this for me just tends to get kind of missed. I think a different time of year, either at the very end of the Stanley Cup playoffs or perhaps a pre-NHL season kind of tournament might actually be more interesting and more appealing because there just won't be the same number of options.

Brock Richardson:
I agree. I missed the World Cup that they tried once, that they keep threatening to come back and-

Cam Jenkins:
Threatening, this word.

Josh Watson:
Threatening, promising.

Brock Richardson:
When you see the best on best, and I know you hear this all the time when people say, "Oh, Olympic Games are for amateurs," which we're not going to get into this discussion right now, but this is where I miss the NHL players and I think if we went back to the World Cup and went back to it on a more consistent basis, this would fuel my interest more.
Certainly, I was keeping tabs on this event and I used the word tabs loosely where it was like, "Oh yeah, that's the score of this game, moving on, moving upwards, Canada wins. Ho-hum. No big deal."
But I just missed the World Cup where it's like, yeah, we see the best on best. I loved the junior-ish team that was added to the World Cup a number of years ago. I thought that was cool like that. I just don't think that this event has the same kind of gravitas, if you will, in other events that they've put on. And so I think that's part of it.
I will shout out the fact that Samuel Blaze wins player of the game for Team Canada scoring two goals in the final game and then one in each of the knockout stages. That's pretty cool when you consider a guy like that, don't really know him as a household name, but when you can score goals like that, at that point in the year and at that time, this is good. And so once again, congratulations for Team Canada and what they've accomplished. Regardless of whether we tune in from top to tail or the gold medal game, it's nice to know that Team Canada is back on top of the hockey world yet again.
It's a pretty cool thing when you consider every other year for the last eight years, Canada has won the gold medal. Congratulations once again. If you want to get ahold of us on Twitter, here's how you can do that.

Speaker 6:
Welcome back to The Neutral Zone AMI broadcast booth and we are set to get this ballgame underway. The first pitch proxy by Brock Richardson's Twitter account @NeutralZoneBR. First pitch strike. And hey gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan from The Neutral Zone.
Find her @NeutralzoneCB. There's a swing at a chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base for a routine out. Fans, there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from The Neutral Zone, @NeutralZoneCamJ and @JWatson200. Now, that's a winning combination. And this organ interlude is brought to you by AMI Audio on Twitter, get in touch with The Neutral Zone. Type in @AMIAudio.

Brock Richardson:
Karolina Wisniewska and Josh Vander Vies have been named co-Chefs de mission for the Santiago 2023 Parapan American Games and the Paris 2024 Paralympic games. Josh is a former Canadian boccia athlete. Karolina is a former Paralympic alpine skier. Josh is from Vancouver, British Columbia. Karolina is from Montreal, is where they're joining us right at this moment. Guys, welcome to the program. Thanks for joining us.

Josh Vander Vies:
Thanks for having us here.

Karolina Wisniewska:
Very happy to be here. Thanks.

Josh Watson:
Folks, my first question is for both of you and Karolina, if we can start with you. Can you guys give us a brief synopsis of your Paralympic careers?

Karolina Wisniewska:
I'll give a synopsis of my career. I won't give a synopsis of Josh's. Yes, as Brock mentioned, I was an athlete in para-alpine skiing. I raced all the disciplines. I competed at three Paralympic winter games and won eight Paralympic medals for Canada, which was wonderful.

Josh Vander Vies:
Well, I'm a retired Boccia athlete as Brock mentioned. I was on the Canadian national team for about 11 years, and competed in two Paralympics, Athens 2004 and London 2012. I just missed out qualifying for Beijing 2008 by a single point. That was sort of a moment of heartbreak in my career. But then I came back and made it to London 2012 and finally pulled off a bronze. Those glory days are over though. Now, I'm just a lawyer I like to say.

Cam Jenkins:
I'm still sure there's going to be some glory days for you Josh. Another question for both of you and Josh, let's start with you. At what point did you start to think about the idea that you wanted to become a Chef de mission?

Josh Vander Vies:
Well, I was always paying attention to the Chefs de Mission on all of the Paralympic teams that I was on. I remember the great energy of Louie Balbo in 2004, Chef de Mission. And then the assistant Chef there was Debbie Lowe who went on to be an incredible mentor and friend to me. I always watched and saw what they were giving to the team in Athens.
And then in London 2012, it was Gaétan Tardif was Chef de Mission and Elizabeth Walker Young was assistant Chef and the two of them, they just had such a great impact on my bronze medal journey there in London. The best way to summarize how cool it was I saw Elizabeth Walker Young on her bike a couple of months after the games here in Vancouver and we said hi to each other and it was such a surge of energy because we had been through that team experience together in London.
That just got me thinking over the years of how cool it is to be a Chef de Mission, how important of a role it is to go in and help lead the Paralympic team and the Parapan American team or any multi-sport games team where there is a Chef. And so I always watched for opportunities as I was president of Athletes Can and chair of the Canadian Paralympic Canadian Athletes Council, Chef de Mission seemed like a good way that I could give back.

Cam Jenkins:
And how about you Karolina? When's the first thought or idea that you wanted to become a Chef de Mission as well?

Karolina Wisniewska:
Before I get to that, can I just say that Elizabeth Walker Young, who is the assistant Chef in London is a dear, dear friend of mine. And so it's true that winter and summer athletes can coincide and be friends. I think that's important for me to say that because I think a lot of people are wondering, well, why is a winter Paralympian Chef de Mission for summer games? Really, so the answer to that briefly is that you know what you learn as a high-performance athlete traverses all sports, whether winter, summer, male, female, Olympic, Paralympic.
But in terms of when I first started thinking about being a Chef de Mission, my last Paralympic games were in Canada, the 2010 Paralympic games in Vancouver where I finished off my Paralympic career with two bronze medals, which was wonderful to do on home soil.
I certainly wasn't thinking about being a Chef de Mission at that time. At that time, I was thinking about what to do with the rest of my life. I think though, since... I think the thought has been with me since it has become now the norm that Chef de Mission are former athletes, which is I think as it should be. It is a very important role, a leadership role, a mentor role, a role where you're dealing directly with athletes, coaches and ISTs, so integrated sport teams staff.
I think it's really great and also really critical that that role is actually filled by someone who has experienced what the athletes on the team are experiencing. Of course, it's wonderful to have people from other walks of life, but I say they can fill other roles and a Chef de Mission role should be filled by an athlete.
Similar to Josh, I've kind of kept my eye open, my ear to the ground, so to speak in terms of opportunities. Josh and I were both involved in the Tokyo Games. He was the assistant Chef de Mission to Stephanie Dixon, who was the Chef and I was the athlete mentor. But of course, those ended up being COVID games, so a very different experience.
And then I actually had the wonderful opportunity to be assistant Chef for the winter games, Beijing 2022, just now with another Josh, Josh Dewitt, who is my friend and former teammate. So in some way it's been kind of a progression, if you will, from those roles to this one.

Josh Watson:
Continuing along our theme, if we can start with Karolina and then Josh on this question. Both of you have mentioned in other interviews that this particular go around with Santiago, Chile and Paris France was the right fit for both of you. I'm wondering if you can elaborate as to why.

Karolina Wisniewska:
Well, very much off the top of my head, Paris is a great fit for me because I'm completely bilingual. I'm a total Francophile and I love France and I love Paris. But it's not just that, that's just on a personal note. The Santiago-Paris combination, the combination of the Chef being the Chef for the Parapan Ams and the Paralympics, this is I believe the second time that the CPC is going this route.
I think that's critical and really important and very interesting because it allows us, Josh and I, as a Chef team to do our jobs very, very well in Santiago and hopefully, there aren't any, but if there are any kinks, to get them out before Paris, just like the athletes themselves.
Of course it will be a different group of athletes and a different group of people. I think it's a really neat opportunity and an advantage potentially, I think for Canada and Team Canada to have the same Chefs in place for both Santiago and Paris.
That seemed like a great idea to me. After I mentioned Tokyo and after Tokyo and Beijing and COVID games, and I was also on the ground in London in a completely different role and I have this excitement around Paris because I think London did such a spectacular job of putting Paralympic sport on the world map, really did in a way that I think no other Paralympic games have done since. I have a feeling that Paris has that same potential and that's what makes me excited.

Josh Vander Vies:
It's going to be so great to be teamed up with Karolina in Paris. Our thinking is along the same lines here. I love the link between London and Paris. It's great. The fact that as co-Chefs, we're both completely fluent and in English and French is going to be a lot of fun and a great, just wonderful way to show our Canadian pride there in Paris moment to moment in all of our interactions.
There's a real interesting accessibility component to Paris. I'm looking forward to going in there as a wheelchair user and really asserting accessibility and my pride of being a disabled electric wheelchair user. Paris doesn't exactly have the best track record out of the most accessible cities on our planet. And so I can't wait to just be there in this prominent leadership role and have the most athletic and most competitive wheelchair users in the world there with me in the city as we all celebrate our pride and claim Paris as a disability space.
And then Santiago, I love the Parapan American Games. Guadalajara 2011 Parapan American Games was a real highlight of my career playing and The Neutral Zones own two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson, was on the team with me there in Guadalajara. So it's hard to really pinpoint why I loved it so much there, but it's just a real highlight of my career. The crowd was amazing in Mexico and the concept of competing against the Americas where in most sports, especially in our sport, still many of the top athletes are from the America's region.
It's really high-quality sport and I know that it can be a similar high point for many members of the Canadian 2023 Parapan American team. So I just can't wait to build that continuity into Santiago and Paris.

Cam Jenkins:
Josh, I'll start with you. I've always wondered about the Chef de Missions. In your opinion, and then we'll go to Karolina afterwards, what makes a good Chef de Mission?

Josh Vander Vies:
Well, I'll quote a former illustrious Chef de Mission, Chantal Petitclerc. She would often say, "It has nothing to do with cooking." That's for sure, but it's not that kind of Chef and I won't be bringing any cooking skills. It means leader, of course. Leader of the mission. I think a good Chef knows what it's like to have been in the role of a team member competing when the stakes are so high, getting the distractions out of there, using the distractions to your advantage, knowing what it's like to have your family in the city and be worried that they've got tickets and that they're going to show up for your matches or that their flights are on time.
All of that. It's someone who has lived the experience and who has lived the whole gamut, the highs and the lows. It's all about someone who knows that everything isn't going to go perfectly and who can just react. I said it earlier, moment to moment. I think it's somebody who has real control over themselves. I hope that over the years, I've built some high-performance ability, especially under pressure. That's what I'm really hoping to help moment to moment when the stakes are just off the charts and unimaginable, I want to be there helping people with what they need.

Josh Watson:
Now, in talking about being co-Chef de Mission for these two events, I'm wondering, Karolina, starting with you, can you talk to us a bit about what you think that dynamic will be between the two of you and whether or not you've talked about defining roles or perhaps dividing up the duties of a Chef de Mission?

Karolina Wisniewska:
That's a great question, Josh. We haven't got to the point where we're dividing duties yet. I think for anyone who meets Josh and I... Well of course, first of all, I come from the winter side, Josh comes from the summer side, I'm female, Josh is male. Those are, I think, surface differences. But I think we both bring very important and particular skill sets, some of which we both possess and are very, very complimentary.
I think in some areas for sure, Josh mentioned it, he's a lawyer and there are areas where Josh has an immense amount of strength and there are areas in which I have an immense amount of strength. And so I really do feel that the combined efforts of Josh and me together will make for this wonderful whole and it will just, I think, enable us to undertake our roles as Chef de Mission much more easily.
It's just so much nicer to have a sidekick, someone you can bounce ideas off of, someone you can... Gosh! God forbid one of us gets sick or tired or what have you, but there's a backup. It's not all on you and it's a team effort. I think Canada is very good at working well as a team, and I of course, was in an individual sport, but that's not to say that the people and my teammates and coaches and ski techs and all the people around me, those people were absolutely critical to my success.
People often make that mistake. They think, "Oh well, you were in an individual sport." Well, there's no way, Josh alluded to moments when the stakes are high, there's no way you can race at 130 kilometres down a mountain in a downhill, in a Paralympics on your own.
You don't get there on your own. You get there after years and years of training, after dozens of people having helped you coach you and so on. And I think for me as a co-Chef, what's very important is to realize that in some sense, Josh and I, yes, we'll be there in Santiago, which is great, and we'll be there in Paris, but we're a later addition to the wonderful team that is already surrounding our athletes in their daily training environments, the people that they train with every day. I hope very much that we can be a positive addition. I think the way we can do that is, as Josh mentioned, moment to moment, responding to the needs of the athletes and of the team.

Cam Jenkins:
Josh, you are a lawyer as been previously stated. How do you think you being a lawyer and all of the knowledge you have of that is going to help you with being a Chef de Mission?

Josh Vander Vies:
I practice the law of charity, so I build charities and get them registered with CRA so they can get tax receipts and I defend them against CRA when they come after their tax-exempt status.
I've also had a chance to learn a lot about sport and the way that the law interacts with sport in my seven or so years of legal practice. I'm hoping to leverage all that, but hopefully being a lawyer won't be too much of a negative.
I hope that Karolina is going to learn how to understand me and maybe she'll be able to translate if I start getting into too impenetrable of legalese out there. But really, ultimately all that we, lawyers, are good at, all that we're really good for is that we can learn really fast. That's basically our skill. We learn quickly and deeply on something that we had no idea about because we need to use it in a case or in a scenario. That's what I'll be really watching for, to see if there's something that I can learn about and then deploy really fast.
When I was Team Canada Ombudsman for the 2018 Commonwealth Games in Gold Coast, I studied all of the technical manuals by the host organizing committee for every single sport. And then a couple of times I was able to, "Oh yeah, I remember there's something in there and then I could go and look for it." So really nerdy and geeky, stuff like that.

Cam Jenkins:
No, nothing wrong with that at all.

Josh Watson:
Nothing wrong with a little bit of nerdy and geeky once in a while. Another question for both of you, beginning with Karolina, we've talked about it a little bit I think, but what do you hope to bring to the athletes during your times as Chef de Mission?

Karolina Wisniewska:
It's a great question. Well, Josh doesn't even know this about me. I had every intention of going to law school, then I got derailed by getting named to the national team. It's a good thing my ski career happened, otherwise you'd be talking to two lawyers. But in all seriousness, what do I intend to bring to the team? Certainly, I have a wealth of experience.
I have competed at three Paralympic games. I also missed my first shot, my first kick at the can in a way, similar experience to Josh. I've had numerous brutal injuries, losses by a hundredth of a second, things like this, things that happen in sport. It's interesting when people do a summary of your or even I do a summary of my career. I say three Paralympic games, eight Paralympic medals. But that's not even the half of it.
That's just the part that's easy to say. Behind each and every one of those medals and every World Cup podium and every World Cup globe, every ski season that I lived through, I lived and breathed and was my sport. I trained to the utmost of my ability in the gym on the hill, mentally, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I brought it for decades. So just thinking about it makes me tired.
I've now recovered. I'm not so tired anymore and I'm really ready to bring all of that experience and hopefully my evident enthusiasm to the team. I also think it's important to realize that the Paralympic movement is constantly shifting and moving and evolving. And so that it has evolved a little bit since Josh's and my time as athletes, but perhaps not enough. So we also have, as Josh has alluded to, I think we have a formidable opportunity with Paris in particular, but perhaps also with Santiago to move the Paralympic agenda, if you will, to move it forward and to bring it more to the fore again. Prior to Santiago and Paris and this, I think, is what's important as well, is to do that work in and across Canada.

Josh Vander Vies:
When I'm thinking about what I want to bring and give to the team, my thoughts are really centring around pride. Karolina and I have had some good chats about this and we're sort of approaching this united. I talked about disability pride and Karolina just mentioned it.
The other areas where my mind really goes is Canadian pride and sport pride. The games, both games are just centred on nationalism and Canadian spirit and seeing our flags flying. Without going overboard on nationalism in today's globalized world, I do want our team to feel so proud and to take advantage of this really special connection that we're all going to have to all of Canada.
And then on Sport Pride, we're heading into a... I don't know if we're there, but we're getting close to maybe a post-podium world in Canadian sports. We're going to celebrate medals and we're going to love medals, but I'm going to really be watching for the moments that might not necessarily lead to medals, the sport performances that are just so awesome, the giant killers.
I just love a good giant-killing. When some kind of underdog comes along and just takes down the world, number one or something, anytime that that happens that a Canadian underdog is getting a win that they have no business getting, I'm going to be celebrating it as much as I can.

Cam Jenkins:
That's amazing. Everyone loves the underdog, so let's hope few Canadian athletes can win those medals and be the underdog. If you could finish this sentence, "I will feel I have done my job in my role if I accomplish_."

Josh Vander Vies:
When team members come to me and give me a little comment about something that I did for them, that I have pulled that off in the past at multi-sport games. It's difficult. It's all so special and I'll be treasuring those little one-on-one moments.

Karolina Wisniewska:
I think my answer is in a similar vein to Josh's, certainly that idea of an athlete or a coach or somebody coming up to you one-on-one is amazing. I think that for me, I will feel that I have accomplished my role as because co-Chef de Mission if each and every member of Team Canada leaves those games feeling from a because co-Chef standpoint that they were supported, that they were heard, that they were cheered on that any issues that arose, we deflected. And in fact, they probably won't even know about half the issues or more hopefully.
But really it is that sense that they just felt, yes, team Canada and my co-Chefs had my back and they did a great job.

Brock Richardson:
Josh, something that you said early on in the interview regarding Guadalajara was that it was one of your favourite events and it was one of mine too. I would say that in my quarterfinal, I would argue that there was a bit of cheating going on. Not that I'm bitter in any way, shape or form, but that's just the reality of the situation.
Would you say that your level of comfort enjoyment was the fact that when we pulled into the village, there was a SWAT team at the top of the building pointing some level of guns at us and making us all feel a little bit safe but on edge at the same time?

Josh Vander Vies:
Well, that's a site that gets seen at many, many multi-sport games over the continents and over the years here. That's a reality. Safety is a reality at multi-sport games and it's important and Canada does a good job. Yeah, no, I think it was... I would peg it more on the amazing crowds than the assault rifles.

Brock Richardson:
Fair enough For the audience, I did say that a little bit in jest because that is a visual that I just will never, ever get out of my mind. It was wonderful having you both on the program and thank you so much for your transparency and just energy and honesty and we love it and I am confident that Canada has selected the appropriate Chef de Mission. So thank you both very much.

Josh Watson:
Thanks.

Josh Vander Vies:
Thanks everyone.

Karolina Wisniewska:
Thank you for having us.

Brock Richardson:
That was Karolina Wisniewska and Josh Vander Vies who are co-Chef de Mission for the upcoming Parapan Am Games and Paralympic Games. If you like what you heard on this interview or anything else we did, here's how you can get ahold of us by voicemail.

Speaker 1:
If you want to leave a message for The Neutral Zone, call now 1-866-509-4545. Don't forget to give us permission to use your message on the air. Let's get ready to leave a voicemail.

Brock Richardson:
We always love having interviews on the program. Doesn't matter at what level, at what stage in people's careers. It's always fun. When you have two people on the same interview, it's tough sometimes because one person may not match the energy level of the other, or you may have two people with too much energy or whatever the case is. And in this case, both Karolina and Josh were just wonderful, really honest, really transparent, and it was just a lot of fun thoughts on the interview. Cameron, I'll start with you.

Cam Jenkins:
I thought it was a great interview. I always love interviewing Chef de Missions or the executive when it comes to the Paralympics because they always have so much passion and they're so dedicated and that's great to see because that's what you need for Canada.
The whole world is watching when you compete at Paralympic games and you're representing Canada. So it's great to have those Chefs de Mission as leaders, as cheerleaders and as confidants. So you can go to them if you're feeling nervous or if you're feeling whatever you're feeling, you can go to them and talk about anything as it relates to the games that you're competing in.
They also seem like very calm individuals that don't get too high or too low, as far as when somebody might be stressed out. They seem like very even-keeled and being able to really calm down a person if they are having anxiety before competing.

Josh Watson:
Yeah, I really enjoyed speaking with Josh and Karolina. They're both very, very accomplished athletes in their own fields, which is the first thing that I took note of. Second thing was just the energy. Karolina especially, seems very, very bubbly, very enthusiastic.
I can see her being a big cheerleader at the various venues as the week goes on cheering on our athletes, which I think it may not be the most important part of what they do, but I think it is something that athletes will appreciate being so far away from home. Josh too, but given maybe it's his legal background, maybe it's just his personality, but he just does seem to be a little more even keel or a little more reserved if you will. But Brock, you know him best, so you might feel differently.
But yeah, those were the two things I took away from it. I think they're both going to do an excellent job and they really seem to get along well with each other too, which if you're going to share a role, I think that's critical that you'd be able to work hand in hand with your co-Chef de Mission.

Brock Richardson:
This almost to me feels like a ying to the yang sort of scenario. Josh is a very even-keeled guy. He does have a level of energy, he does have a level of fun. He does have energy on a different level, but Karolina to me is going to be the one that brings the energy, brings the... Not so much that Josh doesn't have the life, but Karolina's going to bring the life to the party. I think this is-

Cam Jenkins:
Josh has got some jokes. He'd had some jokes during the interview. It's kind of funny. I chuckled.

Brock Richardson:
I know, but he's still got that serious undertone to the jokes. The beautiful thing about Josh is that he will argue black versus white for you, hence the lawyer background.

Cam Jenkins:
I was going to say that.

Brock Richardson:
One of the things that stands out to me about Josh, which I never got a chance to make mention during the interview was that he created a rule in the rule book. We all have rules in the rule book in the Boccia world that we call the Josh Vander Vies rule, the Brock Richardson rule, the whatever, even though it may not be allocated as that or suggested as that, we all know.
For Josh, the rule that's added was there's no such thing as one bocce ball touching the Jack Ball more than another. If both bocce balls are touching the Jack Ball, it is considered a tie. The reason this got started was because Josh argued with his own father, I believe, at a local event that his bocce ball was touching the Jack Ball more than the opponent's bocci ball, which wasn't a rule at the time, but it has become one.
I just think that as a friend of Josh's, I couldn't be more proud for a friend, for a colleague, for a teammate. And it's really good and so congratulations to both of them for getting this role and really going to be representing well. I love the fact that they are now the Canadian Paralympic Committee leaning towards sending Chef de Mission to both the Parapan American Games and the Paralympic Games together in the same cycle because consistency in sports is key.
I think for a while there, you were not seeing that. You were seeing one Chef de Mission for one event and another for another one. And to me, the level of consistency is important and necessary. I think this is a good move on the Canadian Paralympic Committee's part. People have asked me if I'm interested in a role like this. The answer to that is unequivocally not at this point.
It's not something that I thought of at this point. I have heard that you do get to a point in your career or your retirement where you want to do that. I'm not at this point, but they are and they're ready to do it and they're primed and ready.
So I wish them all the best of luck and hopefully, we'll have them on again post probably both events just to kind of get a recap on how they felt the team went and did. Best of luck to both of them. I did want to move on to the Para-Ice Hockey World Championships that is getting going and has gotten going.
Canada begins as we record this tonight, Monday, and they get going against Korea. The pool for Pool A is Canada, Czech, Korea, United States. Pool B is Italy, Norway, Germany, China. Let me give you the full skeptics of my notes here and then I will let you weigh in on your thoughts.
First of all, what I want to see from Team Canada is really putting the pedal to the metal from the beginning of the event. None of this, "Oh, we're going to roll over everybody and we're going to wait until the United States comes." I think we can all sit here as a trio and figure out that first round Robin game is probably going to be undefeated Canada versus undefeated United States.
But we do have to play the games as they are on the schedule. For me, I want to see Team Canada take it to the teams they need to take it to and get things started off on the right foot. The second thing that I am looking at is it'll be interesting to see how first ever female on the Canadian team roster, Raphael Toussignant, will be used an impact on the roster.
I have a feeling that she's probably going to be used a bit sparingly just because it's a new role. I hope I'm wrong. I hope she plays a prominent role, but this is her first and so we'll see how this rolls out. Thoughts from both of you on this event as a whole, your own thoughts, whether you want to weigh in on what I've said. Go for it. Josh, I'll start with you.

Josh Watson:
I'm looking forward to the event. I want to see how Team Canada does under their new coaching regime, now that we're starting a new quadrennial and we're in the process of the team adjusting to a new coach and hopefully a new style because I personally don't believe that the old style was working.
I believe that their struggles had as much to do with tactics as it did with personnel on the team. If there's a game that I'm concerned about outside of the United States, I think it's probably the team from Czechia or Czech Republic, whatever they're choosing to go by. I don't think Canada should have any problem with them, but a team like that that's maybe newer to the event and maybe isn't as well-known could surprise somebody.
Certainly Pool B, I think were probably safe to assume that China and probably Norway, if I had to guess, will be the two teams that might come out of that pool. I do find it interesting once again that United States and Canada are in the same pool. That to me is interesting. But-

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, that's annoying to me.

Josh Watson:
Well, you say annoying, I say interesting.

Brock Richardson:
I just have to put that out there. That is flat-out annoying. It's been annoying in women's conventional hockey. I understand you want to see best on best, but to me, when first and second become that, one heads up pool A, one heads up pool B and that's that. Sorry to cut you off there, but I just had to weigh in that it annoys the AG double hockey side of me. Proceed on your comments or if you're done, Cameron, and take over. But yeah, just had to weigh in on that.

Josh Watson:
Well, I'll wrap up here briefly. I do see China and probably either Norway or maybe Italy as the two teams coming out of pool B. It'll be interesting to see for me more how pool B shakes out rather than Poole. I assume that there will be some kind of crossover or that the Poole and Pool B teams will play each other. It's going to be a fun tournament.
Based on other world-class events that have been held in the west, sort of the Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC, sort of area, I think the fans will come out in droves and really give them a lot of support. I kind of wish that I could make a team like that because I think it would be fun to play in.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, that'd be awesome to be able to play in a tournament like that. I might have to dust off the old Sledge or borrow one in order to be able to play because it's been years since I've played. But yeah, it would be absolutely phenomenal to be able to play in a tournament like that and against other people in the world. As far as the tournament itself, to me it comes down to Canada and us and the players that the US has lost and obviously gained, but they have some pretty prominent players and in goal that aren't going to be playing in goal.
With Canada, with the additions that they have, to me, their problem always was is they needed to get in on the forecheck against the United States and to be able to sustain pressure in the offensive zone. That never happened.
Hopefully, they have a team now that's going to be able to do that because they've got a... You can't score goals if you're not in the offensive zone and it seemed like against the US at least, it was always in the Canadian zone.
Hopefully, they have a strategy to be able to do that. I don't know if it's playing defensive hockey and then just taking the chances when you have them to be able to go into the offensive zone or if it's more sustained pressure by getting in on the forecheck.
I think from my little experience that I have, that would be the way to do it. It's going to be an interesting tournament. I always like Korea. They're usually a really fast team to watch. Norway, they've won this a couple of times years ago, so it'd be interesting to see how they're going to be this year as well. It's just a fun hockey tournament to watch at the end of the day, and I always enjoy watching it.

Brock Richardson:
A couple of things of note here. There had been a rumour that Hockey Canada was charging some money to watch some games, last night's game that did not involve Team Canada, was able to be played without cost. Can't speak for tonight's game because it hasn't happened yet, obviously, and it's 9:00 PM Eastern.
What I can tell you is the World Para Ice Hockey Facebook page seems to be streaming these games and there doesn't seem to be a cost associated with that. If there is one on Hockey Canada's website tonight, do go to that or any other game of the week, do go to that World Para Ice Hockey Facebook page because that's your safest bet in the whole thing. And to me, Canada really needs to make a statement at this World Championship.
They have made some changes. They have identified that they need to have a woman in Raphael crack the roster, and this is good. I think their speed needs to be part of it. I think they need to just push the pace. They need to somehow stop Roybal, they need to stop Declan Farmer of the United States, all those things.
And so please enjoy the event. It will be a good one, and we will talk about it all next week as well as we often do. That is the end of our show for this week. I would like to thank Cam Jenkins, Josh Watson. I'd also like to thank Marcavolo, our technical producer. Our podcast coordinator is Ryan Delehanty. Tune in next week because you just never know what happens when you enter The Neutral Zone. Be safe and stay well.