A Passionate Reporter - June 13, 2023

Speaker 1:
Are you ready?

Speaker 2:
Let's go.

Speaker 3:
From AMI Central.

Speaker 2:
Now, circling playing in the neutral zone.

Speaker 4:
Here's a pitch on the way, 36 yards for the win.

Speaker 3:
This.

Speaker 4:
Here comes a big chance, the shot.

Speaker 2:
Is.

Speaker 4:
Is this the tagger?

Speaker 2:
The Neutral Zone.

Speaker 3:
Goal.

Speaker 4:
Goal.

Speaker 3:
Home run.

Speaker 4:
Good.

Speaker 5:
This is as good as it gets.

Speaker 2:
Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian, Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
What's going on? It's time for another edition of the Neutral Zone. I am indeed your host, Brock Richardson. And I am one of a half that's with you today as Cam Jenkins will be heard from in mere moments. Claire was unable to join us today due to some family circumstances, so she will be along on the program in the coming weeks. But she's unable to join us today.
Coming up on today's show, we speak with Mike Davies, who works as the sports director for the Peterborough Examiner. We get his feelings on how the Peterborough Petes were so successful. And then, Cameron and I will weigh in on our thoughts with the interview. Plus, we give you some feedback on the wheelchair basketball world championships plus the NHL finals and NBA finals. Lots coming up on today's program. Let's get into it.

Speaker 1:
Neutral Zone headlines.

Cam Jenkins:
A huge congratulations goes out to Para National Rugby Player and Canadian Para Ice Hockey Player and our very own Claire Buchanan for recently being inducted into the Toronto Sports Hall of Fame. Claire has been on para teams for both para ice hockey as it was mentioned, and wheelchair basketball as well. She's always been a leader in the LGBTQ+ community as well. So, congratulations, Claire.

Brock Richardson:
Recently, the Toronto Blue Jays have made some significant roster moves. They sent starting pitcher, Alek Manoa down to the minors after giving up six runs in the first inning in a recent game against the Houston Astros. They then followed that up by taking a right-handed pitcher, Mitch White, off of the 60-day DL, and followed that up by designating Anthony Bass for assignment. What that means is that, he's placed on waivers and the Blue Jays have up to seven days to either trade him or he just goes on to waivers and another team can pick him up or they can't. The team has said after the seven days, they have no interest in bringing him back.

Cam Jenkins:
The Anaheim Ducks have hired first-time NHL Head Coach, Greg Cronin. Previously, Cronin held assistant coaching positions with the Leafs, and the Islanders before taking over as head coach of the Colorado Eagles in the AHL.

Brock Richardson:
The Wheelchair Basketball World Championships have begun in Dubai. Let's tell you about the pools for this portion of our show. The women's side, Canada will be joined with Brazil, China, Australia, Spain, and Great Britain. On the men's side, we have Egypt, Germany, and Thailand. This is because there are more teams on the men's side, so that's why you see a smaller pool, men's versus women's.
You can go to Wheelchair Basketball Canada for full updates or the IWBF YouTube page, which has the full list of games which you can cast on YouTube. Best of luck to everybody, and we'll give you more details later on in the program.
We also want to tell you that Nick Taylor becomes the first Canadian to win the RBC Open since 1954. Congratulations to him as he was part of a four-hole tiebreaker. It was quite something to behold. Those are your headlines for this week. And Cameron we're going to be discussing today in our chat topic that another MLB team cuts ties with a pitcher following a controversial tweet. Let's take a listen to this clip.

Gethin Coolbaugh:
Matt Dermody was cut by the Boston Red Sox a day after he made his first Major League start and said he regretted making a homophobic tweet two years ago. The 32-year-old left-hander was designated for assignment as part of a flurry of roster moves. Boston has seven days to trade him or place him on waivers. This comes after Toronto cut pitcher, Anthony Bass earlier Friday, one day after the right-handed reliever said he didn't think an anti-LGBTQ+ social media post he shared last month was hateful. I'm Gethin Coolbaugh.

Brock Richardson:
So, a couple of places to go here in for the second straight situation. An MLB club has designated somebody for assignment due to the fact that they've made some homophobic/hateful comments. Here's my question for you in today's chat topic, and that's because of this, do you think the MLB needs to take further action to prevent this from happening in the future? If so, what are those further steps in your mind, Cam Jenkins?

Cam Jenkins:
I don't know what further steps they would need to do in anticipation of this happening, other than like everything with sports, you would have to put it in the collective bargaining agreement and put some verbiage in there that you can't hate each other or say anything hateful towards any other community or any nationality, any other person.
I think that's the only way that they could really do something about it and maybe put it in there that if you do say something like hate speech that you get a game suspension or two-game suspension or whatever that is, and they can do it like the doping where first offence is these many games, second offence, these many games, maybe third offence, X amount of games. So, that would be my opinion.

Brock Richardson:
I would agree. I think, and it would be tough to put this in the collective bargaining agreement because you know that the Major League Baseball and its owners are like oil and water. They're one of the two owners in leagues that really truly don't get along with each other. I agree with you. I think there does need to be something put in writing in the collective bargaining agreement that we just can't have this in our game.
We need to be more receptive to various communities. And in this case, we're talking about the LGBTQ+ too community, but this goes racially all everything in my opinion. And I just think, we've now seen this twice in the last, less than two weeks because we were talking about it last week on the program with Anthony Bass.
And I think, I'm getting to a point where I'm tired of it. And because I'm tired of it, that's where I lean towards and I say, "Yeah, Cameron, I agree with you. Putting something in the collective bargaining agreement is something you should do." Is it something that's attainable? Maybe not with how hard it is for those two sides to communicate, but something really needs to be done because...

Cam Jenkins:
But when you're negotiating as far as the CBA goes, if the management or if the owners really want to put that in, then they've got to be willing to give up something else to the players. So, it's all a negotiation. So, if they really want it to happen, the owners could do that, but what's the hill they want to stand on? Because they're going to have to give something up if they want that in there. So, it's possible. I just don't know what the players would want in return.

Brock Richardson:
And as we've said many times in different ways in this program, if we'll take the Neutral Zone since that's what we're doing and that's what you're watching and listening to at the moment. If Cameron and/or I or Claire or Josh had any hate speech or something that was untoward, we would be reprimanded and we would be, whether we'd be let go would remain to be seen because I don't think anybody's taking that risk on this program, but we certainly would be reprimanded because AMI doesn't stand for that. And I just think that professional athletes need to also recognize that society gets held at a standard, so they should also be held at a standard.
And to me, it's not up to the organization to make that decision. Certainly, it falls on them because you're the organization that employed them and did that. But to me, Major League Baseball does need to stand and say, "This is where we stand on this. If you do this, X punishment will take place," because the rest of the society has to be accountable for what they say, and so do athletes, in my opinion.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, but do you think that because a lot of people are using the word woke or cancel culture like myself, I think everybody should be included. I have a lot of, or some friends that are part of the LGBTQ+ community, and there always a safe space to come talk to me and to be around me. But at the same time, if a person doesn't believe in that, I think it's okay to not believe in that as well.
However, I think you've got to be very careful on how you say that when you're out in the public. But I think it's okay if you don't believe in that lifestyle and to say basically that you would never do that. But I think that what you also have to know and say is that, if other people choose to live that lifestyle, that that's okay for them, but I wouldn't do it myself, and to leave it at that.
But once you start doing hate speech or once you start to really try to push your views on somebody that has the LGBTQ+ lifestyle, that's wrong because everybody can make their own decisions at the end of the day and what they want to do. So, and good for everybody to be able to have the choice to do that.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think everybody has their beliefs, and you're allowed to believe in. Your beliefs are just as important as anybody else's, but in certain circumstances, you really have to manage how you say it, and the platform in which you hold. And I think, that's a standard that sometimes people take a bit too far or not far enough depending on any given circumstance. If you like what you've heard in this segment or anything else and you want to reach us on Twitter, here's how you can do that.

Speaker 1:
And welcome back to the Neutral Zone AMI broadcast booth.

Speaker 2:
Label.

Speaker 1:
And we are set to get this ballgame underway. The first pitch brought to you by Brock Richardson's Twitter account @neutralzonebr. First pitch strike and hey gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan for the Neutral Zone. Find her @neutralzonecb, and there's a swing and a chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base for a routine out.
And fans, there is nothing routine about connecting with Cam and Josh from the Neutral Zone, @neutralzonecamj and @jwatson200. Now, that's a winning combination. And this Oregon interlude is brought to you by AMI-audio on Twitter, get in touch with the Neutral Zone, type in @AMIaudio.

Brock Richardson:
We are so pleased to be joined by Mike Davies, who is a blind reporter. He currently works for the Peterborough Examiner as the Sports Director. Mike, thank you so much for joining us.

Mike Davies:
Yeah, my pleasure, Brock.

Cam Jenkins:
Where did your passion for hockey come from?

Mike Davies:
I think hockey night in Canada is a little kid sitting in front of the TV with my dad watching TV, watching the hockey games on Saturday night. Back then in 1972, '73 in that timeframe, you didn't have the choice of games on TV that you do today. So, it was Saturday night, Toronto Maple Leafs, and that was it. And so, I was a huge Leaf fan as a little kid.

Brock Richardson:
Can you give us a little bit of background on how you became interested in becoming a reporter?

Mike Davies:
I think growing up, I just wanted to do something sports related. I wanted to do something that I was going to enjoy, and sports was sort of my passion. So, initially, I didn't know exactly how I was going to do that because I wasn't a great athlete, so I knew that I wasn't going to do it that way.
And then, when I was in the university, I was going to university here in Peterborough, Trent University, my local university, I'd just taken general arts courses. I wasn't totally sure what career path I was going to be on. I ended up working actually for the Peterborough Petes as a statistician. I went and offered my services if they needed anything, just thinking maybe there was a foot in the door with the Petes, maybe that could lead to something. And what it did lead to actually was me travelling with the team and sitting on the bus right next to Mike Brophy, who was the examiner reporter covering the Petes at that time. And I got to know Mike really well.
And I'd always been able to write pretty decently. And it was through my friendship with Mike that I began to think, "Well, maybe that's what I can do. Maybe, that's my ticket." And yeah, I went from there. When I'd done the university, I applied for a part-time opening at the Examiner, got hired on their news side as a news reporter to begin with. And three years later, transitioned into the sports department, and just finished my 28-season covering the Peterborough Petes.

Brock Richardson:
For those that might not know, can you tell us a little bit about the Peterborough Examiner?

Mike Davies:
It's well over 100 years, the Examiner has been going in Peterborough. As people may be aware, it's a tough time in the newspaper industry. And some people, or sorry, some cities are losing their daily papers. There's no daily paper in Guelph anymore. Guelph Mercury closed. It became something different. Oshawa lost its daily paper quite a long time ago, almost 30 years ago. So, the Peterborough Examiner were alive and kicking, and still covering sports locally and it's been 100-plus years that we've been going.

Brock Richardson:
What do you feel the easiest part of your job is?

Mike Davies:
I get to watch sports for a living and write about it. And it's a job that a lot of people would like to have, and I know I've heard that from a lot of people. And so, I think the easiest part is just getting to enjoy and watch things that you enjoy doing.

Brock Richardson:
Right. I agree with you. I get to work in a field that I love. It's my excuse to say, "Listen, I have to watch sports right now. It's part of my job." Something I never thought that I would get to say. So, really, really cool that we share something in common there.

Cam Jenkins:
What do you feel is the most challenging part of your job and how do you overcome it?

Mike Davies:
It's become dealing with the site issues. When I first started the job, I could see pretty well. I was driving at that time, and my storage without any need for any accessible devices or anything. I knew that over the course of time that would change. I didn't know how long it would happen. I have retinitis pigmentosa, so it affects people in different ways at different stages of their lives and in different timelines, I guess.
And so, I started to notice a few things just around the turn of the century. I had to get up driving in 2001. And then, it's just been maybe in the last five years that has started to become to the point where it's starting to become a challenge for me seeing the sports, and also seeing the computer. So, now I'm using a screen reader a lot, having the stories read back to me.
So, I'm editing it that way to make sure that I haven't got typos and spelling mistakes and that sort of thing, but. And you probably found this, Brock, like no matter how many accessible devices you have on your computer, none of them are perfect. There's always some things that they don't really quite work perfectly with or, so you still almost need a little bit of sight to be able to navigate the computer. And as that site gets smaller and smaller, it gets more difficult. So, I would say that's the toughest part, is just dealing with the computer every day and trying to actually get the stories written and sent out in a timely fashion.

Brock Richardson:
I think we all in the disability community battle with our challenges, and I think people take sight for granted and they say, "Oh, I can see every day," until you can't. And then, you have to battle the elements to which you're given. And I think, that's where the sometimes-annoying phrase can be, "Oh, you're an inspiration." But I think to the general public, it's meant well that we do inspire people and we do show them that, "Hey, even though I had cited the beginning of my career, in your case, I'm still doing it with minimal sight."

Mike Davies:
It's funny though, the inspiration thing, because I do get that a lot. And I say to people, I say, "Well, what's my choice?"

Brock Richardson:
In that vein, how do you feel the disability community is represented in hockey in general? Do you feel it's a good place? And because you work in Ontario, let's focus on hockey in Ontario. How do you feel the disability community is represented? Good or bad?

Mike Davies:
It's interesting because I'm discovering things as I go along here. And certainly, I'm not aware of other people doing the same thing that I am in Ontario, anyways. So, as an example, this year when the Petes were in the original final, I was dealing with people at the league, asking them if they could make certain accommodations for me to help me do the job. And they bent over backwards to do it.
So, from the Peterborough Petes organization to the Ontario Hockey League, to the London Knights media staff, when I went up to a couple of games in London during the final, they did whatever they could to accommodate me and help me do my job. And the same thing at the Memorial Cup. So, I don't know that necessarily that were represented in the terms of having a lot of people in those positions in the hockey world. But I've certainly, found that the people that I've come across are very accommodating and try to help you in any way they can to do your job.
But on the flip side of it in the hockey world is, when I was really getting to a point where I was having trouble recognizing people, and people were going to start noticing in the workplace that I had a vision issue because for many years nobody knew there was anything wrong because it wasn't noticeable. But when it became noticeable, I wrote a first-person article about it just to say, maybe my thinking was, "Well, maybe I won't have to explain myself as much as people just understand what I'm going through."
And so, when I wrote that article, lost my train of thought of where I was going with that. But certainly, oh, I remember, so one of the things I wrote in the article was that I really missed playing hockey because I had to give up playing hockey. I felt like, when you're the guy that doesn't see very well on your line and they're passing you in the pocket, and you're losing it, you feel like you're letting your team down. So, I just stopped playing. And just playing recreational hockey at that time.
And then, I got an email from a guy, he said, "No, you don't have to quit playing hockey. There's a blind hockey association." And it was very small at that time, it was just a group of people that were getting together in Toronto on semi-regular basis and playing hockey with a special pact and a few modified rules.
But they created their own association that has grown and it's now across the country. They have a national championship every year where they bring people from all across the country together to play games against each other. And so, there's certainly people in the field, in the space that are trying to make blind hockey available for people that are going through what we are.

Brock Richardson:
Blind hockey is such a great, great sport, and we've gotten to cover it many times here at AMI. And the first time I got to cover it, you roll into the venue and you just realize, "Gee, I'm covering hockey." And you don't even know that individuals are blind and partially sighted. It's just, it's standard hockey, they're competitive, they want to play. It's really great.
And I think that's a misnomer of blind hockey. People in the public step back and say, "Wait, they're blind?" And they expect a different level of hockey that's just not existent and it's not there. It's competitive hockey and it's great. And now, there's a national team and recreational teams. It's wonderful.

Mike Davies:
You talk about the misnomer. I had a misnomer myself. I thought, now I was probably in my late 40s when I played it for the first time. But I'd played hockey my whole life, and wasn't like an all-star hockey player, but I could survive in a men's league. And so, I thought to myself, "Okay, I can't play as well as I used to because I'm losing my sight," but I'm going to see better than some of the people I'm going to play against. And I've been playing hockey probably at a different level than a lot of these people are. So, I thought, "I'll probably be one of the best players out there," right?

Brock Richardson:
Yeah.

Mike Davies:
And I got my eyes open pretty damn quickly that no, because they said the better players tend to play forward. And for lack of a better word, the weaker players play on defence. And I thought, "Well, no, I'll be a forward, you'll stick me at forward and whatever." And then, after the first game I'm thinking, "Oh, I should probably slide back to defence."

Brock Richardson:
It happens. Para sports can humble you real quick.

Cam Jenkins:
Now, the Peterborough Petes had some really great success this year. And they finished fourth in the Eastern Conference and had to beat some really good teams on the way to the Memorial Cup, including the North Bay Battalion and the London Knights. What do you think led to their success this year?

Mike Davies:
They knew, it's like, if we're going to make a run for it, it's now or never. And so, what they did through the course of the year is, they went and they made some fairly significant high-profile trades, and they brought in players two that had played for Canada at the World Juniors, and a couple of players that were on the championship team for the Hampton Bulldog last year.
And so, when they made those trades in January, they were sitting in third place, they had an eight-game winning streak they were on, and people thought, "Wow, look at the trades they made." They're going to be maybe the favourites now to win the OHL. And then, they proceeded to go 14, 16 and one for the rest of the regular season.
And they weren't living up to their potential at all. And people were scratching their heads thinking, "Why are these guys not doing better?" And fans and Peterborough were really starting to question like, "Where's this team going?" And so, I would say that where they ended up in the regular season, fourth in their conference, 10th overall in the league, was not really indicative of what they had on paper. And a lot of people said, "Well, they're not just going to flick a switch, come playoff time, and everything's going to come together." But that's pretty much what happened.

Brock Richardson:
I got to tell you, I was in London. I live in Kitchener. And I was in London for the OHL final. I was blessed to go to all of the London Knights home games. And I have to be honest that in London, the conversation during that series when they won game one was, "Oh, they'll be fine. London will do it." And then, Peterborough just started picking away, picking away, picking away, and then they won. And I think it shocked a lot of people.
And they did it again at the Memorial Cup where they had a slow start in the first couple of games. And then, they were able to force a tiebreaker, and there was some discussion of like, "Oh, this is an example of the poor reason for a tiebreaker and blah, blah, blah." And then, the Peterborough Petes won the tiebreaker, and they went all the way to the semifinal and were competitive. So, what do you think, if we look at the Memorial Cup like, what do you think led to their success even after a slow start?

Mike Davies:
A couple things, I think their slow start, first of all, they're all good teams out there for one thing. So, I don't think that it was a surprise that any one of those teams would be one of the others on any given night. But I think Peterborough when you look at who all the teams played to get there, I think Peterborough maybe had the toughest schedule and playing teams like Ottawa in North Bay and London. I think the quality of those teams was as good as anything that anybody faced in the finals of their leagues, let alone in the quarterfinals in the semi-finals as well.
So, I think they had a really tough road to get there. And then, quick turnaround to get out there, you're dealing with the travel, you're dealing with the time difference. And then, they had back-to-back games to start the tournament, and they hung with Seattle on the first game, it was tied going into the third period. And then, it slipped away on them.
And then, to play the next night I against a team that had rested the day before, I think everything just hit them at once and they ended up being embarrassed 10 to two against Kamloops. And again, there was consternation in Peterborough, but well, are they just going to go three games and out and prove to people? Maybe, they weren't as good as everyone thought they were in the playoffs.
And so, they redeemed themselves by beating Quebec. They were the only team that beat Quebec who went on to win the Memorial Cup. And then, they got Kamloops who had embarrassed them and they came back and beat Kamloops in overtime. And I guess, redeemed themselves. But I would say, it was a combination of they had good players and a good team, and they had a fair amount of character and guys that were willing to persevere through some tough times. And I think that all was part of what allowed them to redeem themselves a bit there in Kamloops.

Cam Jenkins:
The team plays in the Memorial Centre and they have done so since 1956. Can you maybe talk a little bit about the arena and what makes it so iconic?

Mike Davies:
It's one of the oldest rinks in the OHL. It's not the oldest. Sudbury is a little bit older than the Memorial Center. But Sudbury has never won an OHL championship. Peterborough's won 10 of them. So, I think when you enter the building, there's a lot of history there. You see the banners, you see things that they've done to recognize different alumni through the year. They've got photos of every team stretched along one wall in the arena that I think a lot of people that are visitors to the rink spend hours sometimes just going through the different photos and recognizing the different players that played for the Pete and went on to the NHL.
And so, there's a certain amount of history to it. It's a unique building. The layout of it, the structure of the building itself is very unique. There's nothing like it in the OHL. And so, it has a certain charm maybe that the Maple Leaf Gardens or the Montreal form had because of their age and their history. At the same time, there's people that look at it and go, "Well, you can never replace that. You can never find a new building." And a lot of people think, we don't need a new building, but it is old.

Cam Jenkins:
There is that level of, listen, it's an iconic building. And because of its age, that's what makes it iconic. But then, you got to look at it and say, "The iconic outweighs the revenue, the age of the building, the pipes, the things like that." And at some point, you got to look at it and say, "We need a new building, regardless of the iconic nature of it."

Mike Davies:
I think this recent playoff run where they were selling out at 4,000 and couldn't fit another body in the building, it was generated the drumbeat a little bit from the team saying, "We could have fit another 2,000 people in there, but we didn't have the room." And so, it's time for new building, and I think that's, you're going to see that become a topic of conversation in the next little while here in Peterborough. Some people will say, "Oh, it's got so much history, you don't want to replace it." But other people saying, "It's time to get into the modern era," right?

Cam Jenkins:
But I think time does hit everything no matter it's iconic or not. Mike, thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview. We greatly appreciate it. And we'll have you on again down the line when Peterborough goes on its next run. Hopefully, next season.

Mike Davies:
It was my pleasure.

Brock Richardson:
You want to get ahold of us by voicemail because you liked what you heard on this interview or anything else we've done on the program; here's how you can get ahold of us by voicemail.

Speaker 1:
If you want to leave a message for the Neutral Zone, call now 1-866-509-4545. And don't forget to give us permission to use your message on the air. Let's get ready to leave a voicemail.

Brock Richardson:
All right. So, I wanted to start this segment. We talked about it in our headlines where you can go to get the event, the International Wheelchair Basketball Federation World Championships in Dubai. At the time of recording, here's what we know. The women's started their event and played Brazil, and they defeated Brazil 61-56.
And then, on Monday the women played again. And unfortunately, they lost to Spain 70-65 was the final score in that game. Cameron, the thing here in this game was that the women shot less than 50% at the free-throw line. And to me, that was the real difference in this game. You got to make your free throws. And I think that when we look back at the event, however, Canada does moving forward, that's something we're going to look towards. And yeah, any thoughts on that before I give you the men's results?

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, no, you hit it on the nail there, Brock. I would say that if you're hitting less than or just around 50% for your free throws, you're not going to win too many basketball games that way. You definitely got to hit a lot of your free throws in order to win it, and you got to get your points from the field as well.
So, that's the most important part, especially playing wheelchair basketball and their free throws. So, it's not anyone guarding you or anyone with hands up in the air to block a shot, and you've got to hit more of those than you don't.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, for sure. Coach Marni Adams didn't look very impressed throughout the last quarter. I will tell you that the game was tied after the first quarter. It was tied after the second quarter. It was tied after the third quarter. And then, Spain took over a little bit. But again, it was that quarter that you really saw the free throws suffer.
If we look on the men's side, they were defeated by Germany, 65-52 in their first game. They were just simply outplayed by Germany. They were bigger, they were faster, they were more physical, and it just really looked like they were overmatched by Germany. If we look at their second game on the men's side, they played Thailand, and they had a much better game against Thailand. It was 83-55.
This was a real important game because you only have a three-person, 3 Team Round Robin in which to make things work. So, that's what you need. Canada will need a win against Egypt to have hopes in advancing. I'm not sure if it's the top one or two with the way that the pools are so designated.
So, Canada will definitely need that second win to, or yes, second win to advance through. But man, when you get off to a tough start in your first game against Germany, it's hard to pick yourself off the mat, Cameron, and say, "We got to do this." So, it's good to see that Canada did that.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, and I think that their second game against, it was Thailand. There's no reason why you shouldn't beat them. I don't see them being a powerhouse in wheelchair basketball. So, that's a team that you've got to beat, and they did that and quite handily.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, for sure. So, that's a little bit of the look at the Wheelchair Basketball World Championships. If you want to go back and you missed our headlines, we gave you some pretty succinct detail on where you can go to catch the games, and it's going on through the 20th of June, so of another week or so before we crown a champion. And we wish both the men's and women's team a bunch of success.
Let's stick in the world of basketball. But this time, we're going to chat a little bit about the mainstream sports world. We have a situation where the Denver Nuggets are up 3-1, and we have seen that Nikola Jokić and Jamal Murray have really been the driving force behind Denver and what they've done. But their team as a whole just looks really clean, really succinct, really good.
And so, I think by the time we record another episode, and even maybe by the time this episode gets released, we might have a champion. Cameron, before you weigh in with your thoughts, I want to give you some stats on Nikola Jokić, which are playoff statistics. And it's just absolutely ridiculous what I'm going to read you. He has 500 points, 250 rebounds and 150 assists. When I read that to you, what does that mean to Cameron?

Cam Jenkins:
And without looking at how long did it take him to get those? Was it just this year in the playoffs or is that his overall playoff career?

Brock Richardson:
The stat that I saw said in the playoffs, so I'm not sure if they meant this year. But I think in the playoffs in general, because I can't see him scoring 500 points in one playoff. So, I would think that if the statistic I'm looking at, it says in the playoffs. So, I think we're looking at career statistics as I look it up on the fly.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, it's still a hell of a lot of points. And he's a triple-double machine, and I saw his statistic, I just can't remember how many triple-doubles he's had just for this playoff alone. But the guy is a wizard at the end of the day, and I'm not talking Washington Wizards, just like a wizard, wizard. He's just unbelievable, and everything goes through him and Jamal Murray sets everything up as well.
And Denver, I could see them being the next great team for the next few years because I don't see a lot of other teams being able to overtake Denver with the way that they've played these playoffs. They're just a phenomenal team, and it's great teamwork. And the passing is great too. And it's really good to see because you like people or teams to share the ball, and when you're sharing the ball, you're getting other people involved. And obviously, your big dogs are going to be your big dogs, but they're playing really good basketball right now.

Brock Richardson:
It was game four I was watching, and this was when I realized before the stat that I just read to you came out. This was the moment that I realized Nikola Jokić is unbelievable. The Miami Heat scored a three. They brought the score down to an eight-point deficit.
Nikola Jokić went down the floor and he is a tall big man. He's over 6-foot. He's a tall, big man, really a jolly, green giant. And this was the moment that I thought, "Wow." They brought it down to an eight-point deficit and he drops a three big giant guy like, Nikola Jokić drops a three and just gives you that stab in the heart and says, "Ah, yeah, you thought you were going to get back in this game and you thought I'm a big, giant burley man and that we wouldn't be here." He drops a three. It's just unbelievable what one person can do in the sport of basketball. And they have two, and some further depth beyond that too.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, God, yes.

Brock Richardson:
But just the two mainstays in Nikola Jokić and Jamal Murray. You can have one guy run your team in basketball when you have two lookouts.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, absolutely. And with Jokić, he's the center as well. And before, the center was just always underneath the basket and slam dunk or sky hook or that's the way the game used to be played. But with the new way that basketball's been playing, anybody can go out to the three-point line and sink a three pointer now. And that's how the game is played now.
In one sense, it's interesting because if your three-ball is isn't falling, they just keep trying. And sometimes, it bothers me to no end that when the three ball isn't working, that you don't go low and that you don't get the easier baskets or the two-pointers because if you're able to get the two-pointers, yeah, for every two baskets, it's more than the three-pointer. But if your three-pointers aren't working, man, go to that basket and get your two-pointers.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, you bring up a good point. That's the part in basketball that I feel like when I watch it, I'm beating my head sometimes because we talk about analytics in sports, and I think in basketball it's not so much about analytics, whereas it's like some athletes will look and say, "Oh, I can get three points versus two."
And so, three is a bigger number than two as I do my best impression of the count here. But I think we get stuck in the whole, "Oh, this is more than that." Whereas, you bring up play a little bit of defence, score a couple of twos, and that does much better than missing a three or making one of every five or six. There's teams that can do better than that, of course, and games you can do better. But it's just, it's so different in basketball.
And I do agree with you, I think they stick to the well a bit longer than they should. And when you have a big man that can pass the ball, shoot the ball, you are one scary team. And I would imagine, by the time we record next week, there will be an NBA champion, and it's probably going to be the Denver Nuggets.
I will say though, got to love Kyle Lowry, 37 years old, still plays with a bunch of energy, dives on the floor for balls. It doesn't matter if they're up, down, whatever. He is a guy who puts it all on the line and says, "We're going to do this." Bam Adebayo, Jimmy Butler, you got to credit what they've tried to do in these playoffs. They come in as the eight-seed. And I just think they've met their match here, Cameron. And it's pretty sad because I'm still a Kyle guy. I love Kyle Lowy.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah. And he's on the second, he's on the bench now, but he brings a lot to that bench. When he's out there, he's still got the same heart and desire. Like you say, he dives for balls, he'll do anything for the team. Before in Toronto, he was great at taking a charge as well, which really helps.

Brock Richardson:
He still does that every once in a while.

Cam Jenkins:
Yup, and that's really good as well. And at 37, to be that all in when your body is starting to break down, yeah, like Kyle Lowry can't say enough about him. He's really helped that second unit to be a good unit when playing. And what can you say about Jimmy Butler? He left a 76 surge to come to Miami because he loved Pat Riley and he loved the no-nonsense work-hard mentality of Miami. And that's why he went to Miami.
And I think he's a great leader there as well and Bam, another great athlete, great basketball player. But they've run into the Denver Nuggets. And I just think Denver Nuggets is the better team.

Brock Richardson:
And I mean, I can hear the audience out there saying, "Yeah, but Miami's an eight-seed." Okay, we have to give Miami a bit more credit than what we're doing because what they've run up against is just a beast that no one's touching. I don't think if Boston, if Milwaukee did what they should have done at the top of the east and got there.
I don't think we're having much of a different result. Denver is a real good team and a real well coached by Mike Malone, and just it's unbelievable watching what they've done. And so, I don't necessarily agree with the whole, "Ah, they're an eight-seed and we finally see it." No, no, no.

Cam Jenkins:
But everyone loves the underdog, Brock. It's just like in the NHL playoffs with the Florida Panthers, they came in as an eight-seed. And now, they're in the Stanley Cup final. So, everyone loves the underdog. And Miami, I wouldn't even consider them an underdog because they probably shouldn't have been in eighth place. They probably should have played better during the regular season. So, they were a higher seed, but they ended up where they were. And they're in the finals. So...

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, they are in the final and they deserve all the flowers that they have gotten. And I think at some point when you win one round, two rounds, three rounds and you get to the NBA final, you deserve the credit you get. And I don't think there's some portions of the sports world that looks at it and says they're an 18. I don't think that's fair. And I think when we look at this and say this all around, I think Miami deserves a very well second place. And it's not over yet as we record this, but it certainly looks like it at this juncture in time.

Cam Jenkins:
And in five years from now, Brock, is anyone going to remember that Miami? If Miami comes back and wins this series, is anybody going to remember that they were an eight-seed, five years from now?

Brock Richardson:
No.

Cam Jenkins:
I won't remember.

Brock Richardson:
No. I think the number beside the team and what they came in with, doesn't really matter to people in the grand scheme of things. It does when we're going into the playoffs because we think that that gives us a competitive advantage, one versus eight. That's how we do the matchups and we talk about. But at the end of the day, when we get to the end of the game and the end of the playoffs, we don't look at the number beside the team because they earned it and they deserve it. So, yeah, I just think that that's where we are.
Cameron, I want to squeeze in a little bit about the NHL Stanley Cup final. We see another team in the Vegas Golden Knights, who are just being led and run, and it's wonderful to see. It's great. I enjoy it. Jonathan Marchessault is playing unbelievable. For the Vegas Golden Knights, Adin Hill and goal, who's really a fourth-string goaltender, you could argue. He is proving.
You want to talk about a number beside a guy. This guy's saying, "I don't care what number you want to give me. I'm going to play." Your thoughts on this series and what you've seen?

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah, it's been a phenomenal series. And for teams that get criticized as far as going over the Salary Cap with LTIR, and so on and so forth, that's what Vegas has done. But it's part of the rules. So, they have a phenomenal lineup and they're playing within the rules.
So, I want to say something bad about them as far as how they got there, but I can't really, because it's within the rules, at the end of the day. So, how can you say anything too bad because they have a really good team and the goaltender, Adin Hill, who saw that coming? I sure as hell didn't.
But at the same time, Florida Panthers, they're down 3-1 at the time of recording. And it just so happened that the first-round series against the Boston Bruins, they were also down 3-1. And we all know what happened in that series to beat their President's Trophy winners. So, this series is far from over, I'm thinking.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah, and that's a good point. I actually didn't really think about that, them being down 3-1 in the past, in these playoffs. We haven't seen a lot from Sam Bennett. As we could check, seems to be playing at put the percentage here. He is not at 100%. He's had a bit of a shoulder injury.
And the argument could be made. Listen, you shouldn't be playing when you have that level of injury. Listen, you need a math, you could check out there at whatever level he can give you. If he's able to play, he just demands that respect and who knows what happens.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, he's the MVP for the Florida Panthers. If they end up coming back and winning this series, I think Tkachuk is the MVP and/or Bobrovsky. But Bobrovsky, I think is hitting a brick wall now and is not the Bobrovsky that has been the last three series that he's done so well in.

Brock Richardson:
If we were to look at the last three series and look at the way Florida played and we're really some world beaters and giant killers, I would take the leaves out of the giant killer category. But I would've told you Sergei Bobrovsky is the MVP if they win. I'm not so sure I say that now, even if they come back and win, you have to give it to a Matthew Tkachuk, a Sam Bennett, somebody like that. Sergei Bobrovsky has not been at Vesna calibre in this series, and that's just a fact.

Cam Jenkins:
Not yet.

Brock Richardson:
Not yet.

Cam Jenkins:
But if they come back and he ends up getting a shutout in the next three games in a row, you might be in part of the conversation. But let's go with reality here or what I think reality is going to be, and Vegas is going to win it, who's your MVP for Vegas?

Brock Richardson:
It's got to be Adin Hill. It has to be Adin Hill. Without a doubt.

Cam Jenkins:
I would see, I would disagree with you because I'm thinking either Marchessault, I believe is how you pronounce his last name. He's gotten a lot of big goals in order to be able to win the games, or even his centerman, Eichel.

Brock Richardson:
Mark Stone too.

Cam Jenkins:
Well, oh.

Brock Richardson:
That's another one.

Cam Jenkins:
I was going to say, Eichel.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah.

Cam Jenkins:
He demanded that to trade out. Yeah, I guess he demanded a trade out to Buffalo because he didn't want to go with a surgery that Buffalo suggested, and that was a great get for Vegas. Like last year, they didn't even make the playoffs, and now they're one game away from being Stanley Cup champions. So, what a turnaround for Vegas.

Brock Richardson:
100%. I was really highly critical of Vegas and what they did. And as an expansion team, you should never be where you are, et cetera, et cetera. If they win the Stanley Cup, and even if they don't, I am here by saying, Vegas, you deserve what you've done. The atmosphere is what it is. You've built a franchise. I know that's not the rules of expansion, and some would say that you didn't do as well as you did.
But I am here by telling you as the host of the Neutral Zone, @BrockRichardson, I have been wrong as I raised my hand up here, I have been wrong about Vegas and what they've done. What I'm not wrong about is that it's the end of our show for this week. I'd like to thank Cam Jenkins. I'd also like to thank Jordan Steeves, who was our technical producer filling in for Mark Aflalo. Ryan Delehanty is the podcast coordinator. Tune in next week because you just never know what happens when you enter the Neutral Zone. Be safe. Be well.