Professional Versus Amateur Sports - August 22, 2023

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From AMI Central.

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Now, circling in The Neutral Zone.

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Here's a pitch on the way.

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36 yards for the win.

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This.

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Here comes the big chance. The shot is.

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Is this the tiger? The Neutral Zone.

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Oh, my god.

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This is as good as it gets.

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Now, here's your host, two-time Paralympian Brock Richardson.

Brock Richardson:
Welcome to another edition of The Neutral Zone. I am indeed your host, Brock Richardson. Let me tell you about what is coming up on today's program. We released another Canadian Paralympic Committee Summit interview. Today you're going to hear from Danielle Ellis, who is from White Rock, British Columbia.
In the second half of the program, Cameron and I are going to chat about whether or not Olympic Games should be left for amateur athletes only. It's going to be a fun show. Let's get into our headlines for this week.

Speaker 13:
Neutral Zone headlines.

Cam Jenkins:
The Women's World Cup of Soccer has come to an end and we congratulate Spain for winning. The final score was one to nothing, and this is the first time that Spain has won the World Cup in their history. The nation also has won the under-17 tournament and they've also won the under-20 tournament. And so, this means that they have won three international competitions in the last little while. So, congratulations to the Women's World Cup of Soccer for putting on a phenomenal tournament and of course for Spain for winning it all.
It was a success for Canada, the Para Road Cycling World Championships. They took home six total medals on the road discipline, one gold and five bronze. As for the track discipline, they took home another five medals, which were one gold, three silver, and one bronze. Canadian and Nugget Star player, Jamal Murray will not be attending the FIBA World Cup Championships, which is set to begin later this week. His reasoning behind the decision is that it was a long season after winning the NBA championships and he is still being cautious from his ACL injury that was suffered in 2021.

Brock Richardson:
Those are your headlines for this week. And I thought today for our chat topic we would discuss something a little bit fun. So, I want to know from you, Cameron, if there was a team or an athlete you could coach, who would it be and why? I will let you go first and then I will give you my choices that I made.

Cam Jenkins:
Well, the team that I would like to coach to see if I could get more out of them, of course, would be my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs because I think that they have all the potential in the world. However, they're not able to get over that hump and they got over the hump last year. However, it was totally bombarded with a whimper because they didn't do very well in the second round at all.
So, I think I would really like to be able to coach the Maple Leafs to see whether or not I'd be able to help them get over the hump and maybe make it as far as the Stanley Cup Finals. So, that's one team I would like to. And the other team, once again, I'm a homer, I admit it. However, because Charlie Montoyo, I've been hard on him. And John Schneider, I've now starting to get really hard on him as well.
I would love to coach the Toronto Blue Jays or be the manager of the Toronto Blue Jays because they're not meeting up to their expectations either. And I think a big part of it in both John Schneider's case and in Montoyo's case, is that they didn't manage the bullpen very well at all. So, I'd like to get a crack of that bullpen. I would like to get a crack of those starters, maybe get them to go a little bit longer. Throwing in a game, aka Kikuchi, you knew I had to get Kikuchi's name in here somewhere.

Brock Richardson:
Oh, god.

Cam Jenkins:
So, I'd like to be able to stretch out some of those starters to save the bullpen. And I think they could really do well if both Schneider now and his predecessor Montoyo were able to... they weren't doing that. So, those are the two teams. I know you said one, but I gave you two.

Brock Richardson:
That's fine. I'm going to give you two different athletes. But before I give you my choices, I'm going to ask you if Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment came and said, "Cameron, I'm going to give you one year. I want to see what you do with this team. I'm going to give you, let's say $2 million for that one year.
I'm going to give you $2 million. But I want to know first, what is the first thing you do, you say, what do you do with the Toronto Maple Leafs to make them get over that hump?"

Cam Jenkins:
I would say that in the playoffs, the opposing team does this rectangular box right around the net. And you are not able to get a good shot to be able to penetrate that rectangular box that is in front of the opposing team's goalie. So, I would say you're going to have to get a few bruises and get in within that rectangular, square or rectangular area that they've put in there, and you're going to have to stay there.
You're going to have to take the punishment, somebody's going to have to shoot it, and then you're going to have to pick up the trash or get the deflection to get it in the neck. Because I really feel that they're a perimeter team, the Toronto Maple Leafs and that's why they are not able to go too far in the playoffs because they don't go in the dirty areas and they need to get in those dirty areas to score.

Brock Richardson:
Very well put. For me, I have two athletes. The first one I'm going to give you is a real obvious choice, and I'm going to give you reasons why. The first one I would pick would be a current player. And I would love to pick Connor McDavid, who is the forward for the Edmonton Oilers.
And the reason I would pick him is because I'd just like to be a fly on the wall to be able to see what he's like as a person, what makes him tick, what makes him do the things that he does, what kind of teammate is he, all those things. And if I could have any part in not changing his game but adding to it and saying, "This is what I'd like to see you do," I would love that. And can I sit here and say, "Is there something I'd like Connor McDavid to do differently?"
No, I'd probably just tell him, "Keep doing what you're doing." But if I could watch him on a daily basis and maybe tweak something that maybe I'm not seeing as an outsider, then that's what I would do. The second choice that I would have is a newly drafted Chicago Blackhawk, Connor Bedard. And the reason I picked Connor Bedard is because I'd love to be able to be part of an athlete's life before they get things going. And be in that impressionable stage where I can say, "You're early and so, they're more receptive to ideas, thoughts, et cetera."
And for me, those are the two choices because it's hard to get into an athlete. Once they get into their habits and all the things that they do. It's hard to crack in with new ideas sometimes. So, I'd like to take a crack at Connor Bedard. And I'm using Connor Bedard as my pick.
But I also want to say that I would pick any newly drafted athlete in any sport for the same reason due to the fact that they're just impressionable and able to be more receptive to ideas. Cameron, your thoughts on the two that I said?

Cam Jenkins:
Two that you said? I love what you're saying about Connor Bedard because being able to get a player that is just starting to learn the NHL. And like you said, like you worded it so well, I can't really expand on it too much other than to agree with you. And I would love to be a coach to make that person impressionable or to teach them because there's no better feeling than when you're able to give knowledge to somebody. And when they take that knowledge and they apply it and then you see them thriving, to know that you're a small part of that success, there's no better feeling in the world.
So, you worded it so well about Connor Bedard, and I would love to be able to coach someone like that too. Connor McDavid, he's the best player in the world. He's getting a lot of assists before and then he is like, "Nah, this year I don't want to get more goals." So then, he got more goals. The dude can do everything but like all team games, it takes a team to win.
So, he has to figure out how to make his teammates better in order to be able to get team wins. So, he's got, and as far as I think the second round, maybe the conference finals, I forget.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. They got to the conference final a couple of years ago.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah. So, it's all about getting the holy grail. In hockey, that's the Stanley Cup. Hopefully, McDavid gets there because at the end of the day, if the Leafs are out, I'm cheering for a Canadian team.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. I'm like that as well. And if there are multiple, after the Leafs are out, then I'll cheer for both. I'll have one more rooting interest than the other. And it tends to be more of an Eastern Conference team, if there is one, whether Canadian-

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, because there's so many Canadian teams in the Eastern Conference.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. Right, exactly. And the time difference of games and et cetera, things like that.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, good point.

Brock Richardson:
I thought too that if I came on here and said, "Oh, yeah, the athlete that I'd love to coach is Connor McDavid," you or anyone listening or watching would be like, "Yeah, that was the easy answer." So, I had to come up with one that is different. And again, I think the caveat with Connor Bedard is suggesting that any newly drafted player.

Cam Jenkins:
Well, he's going to be a generation of player too. So, that's an easy player to pick. I would've been more impressed, Brock, if you picked a new player that's like a fourth-line winger that really asked her in the minutes. And then, if she said, "Well, this person, new person, they're impressionable." But no, of course, you had to go with what's going to be an impressionable or a generational player possibly.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. So, before we move off this chat segment, what about a parasport? Is there a parasport that you would say, "I'd like to give a crack at that as a coach?" Is it the easy answer of hockey or is it something else?

Cam Jenkins:
No, I'm going to go with something else. I don't know, maybe archery, para archery, especially the people that have to do it with their feet and are able to pull it back and then throw the arrow or not throw it, but sling the arrow. I don't know what the proper term is, but I just always found that amazing to be able to do that. So, to be able to coach or to learn how a person does that, I would love to research that or learn how people are able to do that.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. For me, the sport that I would choose is goalball. I think that goalball is a sport that is very, very unique. There is no sport it, there's no sister version of goalball that's in the able-bodied community. It is one in its own. And I'd really like to meet some of the athletes and talk to some of the athletes and figure out how goalball works.
Because the way that they have to give up their body to stop the ball from going into the net and only and purely listening through their ears and not using their eyes to find out what direction the ball is going or not going. And of course, goalball is the sport that you would throw the ball from one end of the gym to the other. And there's three or four people in each net and their object is to stop the ball from going in.
So, there is a little bit of mashup there. But for me, there would have to be so many things, intricacies that you would have to figure out how to make this work. And as somebody who is visually impaired, I think I could learn a lot from athletes, but I also think I could give a little bit just from the lack of vision and having your hearing heightened because of that.
Just a few things that I would like to try there as well. A lot of people will say to me, again, the easy answer would be Boccia. No, for me, I'd want to try something completely different.

Cam Jenkins:
You've done that.

Brock Richardson:
Because coaching that would be like, "No, I'd rather just get in the chair and do it myself." As selfish as that may sound. But it's just easy. I want to go with something that I've never had a background in being able to say, "I've done this and I want to see where this is going to go." So, I thought that was an interesting way to kick off the show and some food for thought for topic.
And if you want to weigh in on what we said about coaching or what you would want to coach or play or an athlete you want to coach, please weigh in on our social media, which can be found right here.

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And welcome back to the Neutral Zone, AMI Broadcast booth.

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Play ball.

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And we are set to get this ballgame underway. The first pitch brought to you by Brock Richardson's Twitter account @NeutralZoneBR.

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Strike.

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First pitch strike. And hey, gang, why not strike up a Twitter chat with Claire Buchanan for The Neutral Zone? Find her @NeutralZoneCB. Now, there's a swing of a chopper out to second base right at Claire. She picks up the ball, throws it over to first base-

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Out.

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Brock Richardson:
We released our second to last Canadian Paralympic Committee summit interview done back in March. This time we hear from sitting volleyball athlete from White Rock, British Columbia, Danielle Ellis. Please enjoy the interview. So, I understand at one time you studied to be a paramedic. Can you tell us about that?

Danielle Ellis:
Yeah. Back in 2012, I took a break from volleyball and went back to school. I did a little bit of an undergrad and then I went and just realized that what my passion was at that time in my life about 2014 was to be a paramedic. So, I started working towards my Primary Care Paramedic certificate and did my emergency medical responder. And then, yeah, went through my primary care paramedic in the spring of 2015 and graduated that in the summer. And then, started working for the ambulance service in the fall of 2015.

Brock Richardson:
So, the million-dollar question is what do you think is more tough being a paramedic or an athlete?

Danielle Ellis:
Oh, my goodness. I think both are tough. Just very different I think. But I think too something that I've really grown with and really work towards is using what I've learned from sports in my job as a paramedic and a dispatcher for the ambulance service. And then, used what I learned in working in high-stress environments in the ambulance service to do what I can as an athlete and be prepared and work hard during those high-stress, high-pressure points as well.

Brock Richardson:
So, was there ever a moment where you pulled on your paramedic skills or vice versa, pulled on your athlete skills and interchange them?

Danielle Ellis:
I think so. A lot of the time. Right now, I mean I'm working with both mental performance coaches in sports as well as counselors and psychologists just like being a human being and working in the ambulance service. So, I find a lot of the time the skills that I'm learning in one transfer over to the other, I'm able to calm myself down in high-stress environments on the court and be able to take a breath or do a little meditation or do whatever I need to do to be able to get to that ideal performance state in sport. And then, in the job just working really hard to be able to maintain a high-stress environment.

Brock Richardson:
I would say most people start their career at a young age and you were this way for sitting volleyball. How did you balance that versus I want to be a kid?

Danielle Ellis:
Yeah. I mean I think that I just grew up in sport and sport was just my life. So, I started on the national team when I was 16 years old. And like I said, I took a break at about 22 I think, and then went back to school and did some life things and then came back as an adult at 31 now. And I think it's just given me a lot of different life experiences. I think I'm a different athlete than I was then when I am now.
And I think it's just those different life experiences, being able to take a step back now that I'm an adult and playing sport. Because as a kid there's just so much to learn and so much to go through and so much hard work and difficult situations that you go through as an athlete and as a human being and just I think I've grown and I've learned from those and to be who I am now.

Brock Richardson:
You are the captain of the sitting volleyball team. What would you say is the best thing about being the captain of the team?

Danielle Ellis:
I mean, honestly, I think it's such an honour to be able to represent my country just with the leaf on my jersey, but being known and seen as the captain of the Canadian sitting volleyball team is a pretty cool thing. I feel like people look up to you and people trust you. And I think that that's really important to me and I just always want to work hard to show them that I am that hardworking individual that can lead them.

Brock Richardson:
What would you say then is the toughest thing about being the captain and wearing that maple leaf?

Danielle Ellis:
Yeah. I mean I think that it does come with another row of stress. You're held higher accountable than anybody else, and you want to be the best athlete and you want to be the best teammate that you can all the time. There's no off switch ever. Yeah. I think it's a good thing though. At the same time, it really just pushes you to be the best athlete that I could. And I think maybe without the captain stripe, I maybe wouldn't be the athlete that I am now.

Brock Richardson:
You guys are quite highly ranked going into the Paralympic Games in 2024. Can you speak to what it's like keeping your team at such a high level?

Danielle Ellis:
Yeah. I mean, I think it's really cool. I mean, we came seventh in Rio in 2016 and we now hold a third-place ranking in the world for sitting volleyball. We played second, silver medal in the last World Championships in 2022. So, just seeing how far we've grown and how far we've come, it's really cool. But now it is just that there's always pressure on us.
Every team wants to beat us now. They thought they could before, but now it's just us being able to push ourselves. And I think we hold each other to a really high standard and we know what we can do with the ball. And so, yeah, I think just holding each other accountable is the biggest thing.

Brock Richardson:
Outside of the obvious equipment that needs to come with you on this trip, what's the one thing that you say, "I have to have this in my bag when I travel?"

Danielle Ellis:
My coffee mug.

Brock Richardson:
I love it. We all need a little coffee.

Danielle Ellis:
Yeah. You need coffee wherever you go in the world. And so, I bring a coffee mug and a drip and a pour-over and a coffee everywhere I go.

Brock Richardson:
Awesome.

Danielle Ellis:
It's important.

Brock Richardson:
Thank you so much for spending time with us. We really appreciate it.

Danielle Ellis:
Yeah. Thank you.

Brock Richardson:
That was sitting volleyball athlete, Danielle Ellis from White Rock, British Columbia, and again, that interview was done back in March. If you want to get ahold of us by phone, here's how you can do it.

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If you want to leave a message for The Neutral Zone, call now 1-866-509-4545. And don't forget to give us permission to use your message on the air. Let's get ready to leave a voicemail.

Brock Richardson:
One of the things that we do, or I do as a producer of this program with the help of my lovely panel is we come up with some backup segments to have discussions about. And we came up with five or six of them in the last little while. And we haven't been able to use them because our guests have come and done what they're been asked lovingly by us of course to do and we appreciate that.
But one of the topics that we had was this one that we're going to bring to you today, and I thought it would be a fun one to have with Cameron here today. And so, we're going to talk a little bit about the Olympic Games and whether or not it should be left for amateurs only. Some people like the pros that are at Olympic Games, some people don't, some people are indifferent. Where does Cameron lie on the pros versus amateurs in the Olympic Games?

Cam Jenkins:
Probably right down the middle. And it's not-

Brock Richardson:
Oh, he's going to play Switzerland.

Cam Jenkins:
I'm going to play Switzerland. Well, I can see both sides. I think that the professionals, they already have their leagues. So, they should maybe stay out of the amateur spotlight and the amateurs should be the ones to be in things like the Olympics. Because except for the world championships, they don't really have the spotlight on them.
And like the NHL does 82 games a year, or the NFL does 18 games a year or whatever it is with the NFL. So, in one sense, I feel like that it should be the amateurs. Because they should get the entire spotlight and be able to show their stuff to the world. Saying that though, like I've said probably many times on the show before, it's all about the almighty dollar at the end of the day. And if the Olympics, if they can get more viewers or if they're able to get more money advertisements because professional athletes play, whether it's the NBA basketball in the summer or the NHL players in the winter, they've got to do what's best, I guess for the Olympics to be able to make money.
But they make enough money as it is. So, do they really need more money? But the other side of the coin as far as I'm concerned, is that when do you really get to see the best players play for their country and perform in front of the world? With the NHL the only other time that they really do that is if they have the World Cup of hockey. And I can't even remember the last time they had the World Cup of Hockey.

Brock Richardson:
In around 2007 or so?

Cam Jenkins:
Something around there. And then, it's a two-week best-on-best tournament, but are they still really trying their hardest to win? I think that could be questionable, whether they do or they don't. You have the all-star games where you have the best players, but they certainly are not playing their best. They're not checking their... it's just like a shinny game to show their skills. So, to have the best-on-best in the Olympics where everybody is really trying, checking and doing all the things that they need to do to win.
I think the Olympics for at least for the NHL, that's the only time you get to see it. And I'm pretty sure for the NBA, that's the only time you would get to see it too. So, as far as the best-on-best competition where they're actually trying, I really like to see it. Because I think it's great NBA action or not NBA action, but it's great basketball in the Olympics and its great hockey in the Olympics when the professionals are there.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. I think the thing that those on the side of the fence that say, "Ah, I'll leave it to the amateurs and the professionals are stealing the limelight." I think what they forget is that a medal at the Paralympic Games is like nothing anyone can describe. It doesn't matter whether you've been in a professional league for five minutes, 20 years or anything in between.
For some reason, that medal and that podium hold such a different feeling. It holds such a different moment that you really can't recreate in the Stanley Cup or in the NBA Final. Yes, it has different emotions, sure, because it's more of a grind. But I think the biggest difference is you're representing your country and you're representing where you grew up, where you were born and your country pride. And I think that's the difference for me.
And I think people don't really understand the weight. And I'm not talking like actual weight because some of those metals do weigh a lot, but the weight that a medal holds proverbially is something that we can't really describe, Cameron. And I think that's part of the reason why the professionals get so involved and want to be a part of the Olympic Games.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah. Absolutely. And playing for Canada or any country that is a phenomenal.... I can't even imagine. I've never competed for my country before, but that must be a beautiful honour to be able to compete for your country knowing that you are trying to win for your teammates and even more so your country. And that's why they do it.
And that's why the Olympics is supposed to be the best-on-best, not necessarily the best amateur on the best amateur. It should be the best-on-best. And if that's the NHL players or the KHL players or whomever, it should be best-on-best. And that's the way they have it set up right now. And I think that they will for the foreseeable future.

Brock Richardson:
Let me paint the audience and you a bit of a picture. In 2008, I participated at the Beijing Paralympic Games. I was a 17-year-old, naive, immature, some would argue stupid.

Cam Jenkins:
No, you're not stupid.

Brock Richardson:
Put the word wherever you'd like to. And I remember the feeling of being in the Paralympic village and the draw to the water cube, which was where they did the diving for the Olympics and the swimming for the Paralympic Games. It was such a spectacle because it literally looked like an ice cube, but in a building.
They had the little divots and it would light up and it was a big, big deal. And I never competed in that because I don't swim. I would sink like a stone if I tried to swim.

Cam Jenkins:
Well, you could do the dive that's getting you out of your chair.

Brock Richardson:
Yes, I could. I still think I would make too much of a splash, but I never tried it. So, maybe that's my new thing I might think about is diving or flopping as it might be. But we went in there one day and we had some time off and we went in there because my at-home massage therapist was with the Canadian swimming team. And we came in to see her in the water cube and things like that.
And she said, "Oh, you should check out some of the swimming. There's a nice athlete's area here and come sit and watch for a bit." It's really great. And I remember sitting there watching five or six different races and I didn't know what race was what or whatever. I just watched for a few minutes.
And then, they said over the PA system, "We're going to give a medal presentation for whatever classification it was from the swim earlier on today." And they said in the bronze medal position was Canadian, and then they announced her name. And in the silver medal position was Canadian, and they announced her name. And the gold medal position was Canadian, and they announced her name as well. And I don't remember the names of the athletes, as you can tell.
But I remember that moment when you watched the three Canadian flags rise up from the bottom all the way to the top while hearing your national anthem. And hearing my national anthem in a venue that I was miles and miles and miles away from home and hearing my national anthem and thinking, "Wow, this is the moment." I am far away from Canada, but I feel like a piece of home.
I didn't know any of those athletes at the moment. I went and met with them afterwards and shook their hands and congratulated them and all that. But before that, I didn't know these people, but I felt connected because they were from the same nation I was from. They just had a moment. And I feel that I was a part of their moment because I was there to witness something historic.
You don't often see a lot of athletes who are competing in the same category from the same nation, and yet they went bronze, silver, gold, and just, it was an amazing moment. And I think there's nothing better than hearing your national anthem so far away from home camp.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, absolutely. And I think you just described it perfectly is even though you're not the one competing, when you see a Canadian athlete competing at whatever it is, swimming, running, whatever sport they're competing in, you're at least I am, when I'm watching the TV and I'm seeing them, I'm like, "Go Canada," or the person's name, and I'm yelling and I'm screaming at the screen because I want them to do well. And then, when they win, I'm jumping up and down and, "Yeah, let's go."
And then, seeing them on the podium in the old Canada, sometimes I'm able to stand. So, I'll stand up and I'll always take my hat off, sorry for my hair, and I'll put my hat over my chest and I'll be singing, oh, Canada too. And it's like I'm right there with them, or it's like I'm the one that competed, and obviously I'm not the one that competed, but like when it's Canada, you just feel so passionate and you feel that you're right there with them or you're the one competing. And it's such a great feeling to have when you experience that.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. No. And that's why I wanted to paint the picture and being on watching it on TV, I get the same feeling. But watching it in person and watching the historic moment that I watched was something I will never forget. And I still have those feelings as I'm telling you, the audience and Cameron, about what happened.
Because it's just that moment where you just think, "I'm here, I'm a part of something." And I think that that helps put the groundwork into why professionals want to be part of the Olympic Games. It's not to take away from the limelight of the amateurs. It's not. It's literally because it's country pride and no matter whether you make millions or hundreds of dollars, your country is something that you will always come back to and be a part of.
And I think that that's part of it as well. I remember when I met Chantal Petitclerc, Canadian wheelchair racer in 2008, and I mean, she's ridiculously decorated. And I remember being starstruck and thinking, that's Chantal Petitclerc. And I still, when I see her on CBC with Scott Russell doing the Paralympic coverage, I was like, "I know this person. I competed in the same games as Chantal Petitclerc, and she's not your conventional professional, but for all intents and purposes for what she's accomplished, she is a professional."
And so, sometimes you get those starstruck moments of this is so-and-so. I mean, I can imagine if I saw you saying both, I would feel the same way because of what he brought. There's just tons. So, again, I reiterate the fact that I don't necessarily think it's they want to take the limelight away, it's just that they want to represent their country so badly, Cameron.

Cam Jenkins:
No, and that's just it. And I could probably tell you like Ben Johnson, although he was disgraced afterwards or Donovan Bailey, some of the swimming medals that we've got as well, the golden goal, I remember where I was for all of those moments. And watching the sledge hockey on TV on TSN is usually where I would watch that.
But the Paralympic coverage online or on TV is a lot better now than when I first started to watch or be interested in the Paralympics. So, there aren't as many unfortunately Paralympic moments that I remember. But I remember when Rene Fasel, she was competing at the Paralympics.
This would've been I think four years ago. And we all went to a restaurant slash pub in Brampton, and they decorated it with Canadian flags, and we had our Canadian t-shirts on and we were all watching Rene compete at the Paralympics. So, there's a lot of Olympic and Paralympic moments.
Kyle Petty a good friend of mine, that's another one where I remember... I don't remember if it was online for his actual throws or if it was afterwards that I saw some highlights. But I can tell you where I was for all of those, and it was such a great experience. And you feel so Canadian or you feel like you're right there with it and it's an awesome feeling.
So, I can't actually imagine what it's like for the athletes. So, wrapping it up from my perspective, I'm talking about all these moments with Paralympics and Olympics and they were all amateurs. So, I don't know, it's something different when it's an amateur athlete that wins a gold medal, I think, compared to a professional athlete.
Because professional athletes, they're paid a lot of money and they get it for 82 games or 18 games or however long their year goes. So, I think there's just something more magical when it's an amateur that they might be getting some endorsements and such, but when they're not getting the big endorsement deals and they win a gold for their country. I just think there's something a lot more special in those moments than when a professional player wins something at the Olympics.

Brock Richardson:
There also can be a lot on the line for somebody at the Olympics and Paralympic Games. And I want to tell you a story of someone that I competed alongside from Great Britain. He's been top 10 in his category for a very long time, and he's in around my age. And when he came in, we were in and around the same age. I was a little bit older than when he came in, but he was the next phenom of Boccia in the sport.
And he was from Great Britain. His name was David Smith. We've had him on the program once, I believe it was on the video side of things. And he just knows how to play and knows how to do every tournament. He's in the top half of his division and everybody, "Oh, there's David Smith again, doing his thing and being a part of it and just being at the top.
And going to get more endorsements from the UK because the UK recognizes parasports like they should. And he would get endorsements." And I remember in the London 2012 tournament, they changed the format and it was, when you're a playing individual, you would play a game and if you won, you would advance on and if you lost, you would be done. And David Smith lost within his first couple of rounds. I'm not sure if it was the first match or not, but it was definitely the first couple.
And I remember him getting off the court. And he was inconsolable because he knew that he had just lost a substantial amount of money for that year and that time because he did not perform the way he should have or the government felt that he should have, he had a target to meet and he did not meet it. And when sports becomes your life and your livelihood and something goes wrong, even as an amateur, Cameron, that can really put some pressure on you. He's come back since and making his money and doing his thing. But for that one year, he knew that he was in a lot of trouble.
So, as much as sports can be fun and all that, it can also add a substantial amount of pressure, especially to those amateurs who don't have something like the NBA or NHL or any sport to go back to and say, "I'll just make my millions over here. No big deal."

Cam Jenkins:
No, a 100%. And that's why when you're an amateur athlete if you don't win that gold, you're not necessarily going to get the endorsement deals. And it'd be interesting to see, even if you get a silver medal at the Olympics or a bronze medal, what your endorsement deals would look like, I certainly don't think it would be as good as if it was a gold.
And it also depends on the discipline that you're doing. If you win a gold in a 100-meter track and field finals, then all of a sudden, yeah, that's known all around the world as the fastest person or the fastest man or the fastest woman. Because it's a higher looked at discipline-

Brock Richardson:
Everyone knows what you're talking about, right? In 100 meters, everyone is aware of it. So, yeah, there's more eyeballs on it.

Cam Jenkins:
Yeah. For sure, and there's more people watching. And probably the advertising dollars that you have to spend on a commercial during the 100-meter final is probably a lot more than some other discipline that a lot of people don't really care about. So, there's so many different factors as far as that goes.
But at the end of the day it's... and I don't know exactly how it works, but I'm sure that athletes or within their discipline that they're doing and the sport that they're doing, I am sure that... let's say it's Rowing Canada. I'm sure Rowing Canada tries to get sponsorships so they can get their athletes over there and to pay for certain things like hotel or food or whatever that goes, or help him to get somebody to sponsor them so they can train. So, maybe they can take more time off of work to be able to train or just for their training expenses.
So, I don't know exactly how it works, but yeah, I don't know. I think that's what makes it even more special because not this... well, for professional athletes, they get paid to practice, they get paid to train, they get paid, and then they go to the Olympics. And they've already been training really hard because that's their job.
Whereas an athlete that is amateur, it's their side job, but they're not paid getting to do unless they're able to get sponsorships. And to be able to sacrifice... a lot of times you're having to sacrifice doing things with your family. If you have a wife and kids sacrificing hanging out with your friends or maybe not going to the restaurant or the bar because you don't want to drink too much or you don't want to eat the wrong foods, you're sacrificing a lot and not getting paid for it. So, I don't know. To me that's just why it's more special, I guess if it's an amateur athlete that gets a gold considering... or compared to a professional athlete.

Brock Richardson:
The goal during my career was always if I could break even between my carting and the money that was spent, I would be a happy person. I can remember we would get $2,000 a month for 12 months. So, that's-

Cam Jenkins:
Substantial.

Brock Richardson:
... quite a bit of money. But when people think about that and they say, "Oh, you're getting paid so much money per month to do this." And then, I would say, "Yeah, but my expenses outweigh what I make if I was left with a couple thousand dollars at the end of the year."
I remember I bought a 50-inch television screen in 2011, which was big money, and because I had the money left over, but that purchase made it so that that was it. I was done. It was over. That was my expenses. And then, you do it all over again.
And I think people as you so well put, people sacrifice so much money and so much time. And for me, it's not even about the money that I regret spending. It's the time that I missed. I missed the birth of my first nephew when I was at the Paralympic Games, which I wouldn't take back. But there's just those moments that you can't get back.
And people say, "Oh, but you got to travel to England, you got to travel to Portugal." If I could tell you how many sites, I saw in all those places. So, those places that I went to, maybe one when I went to England, we saw Big Ben and Buckingham Palace, and we were there for 17 days. And of that, I saw two things. That's just the life of an athlete and the life of the way that it is. And I think it's harder than people realize it is.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, it is. And I remember talking with a friend of mine and you know him, Ryan Bennett. And it seems like it was within the past few weeks we were talking about this, and it's exactly what you brought up.
And I'm like, "So Ryan, you've been to Birmingham, you've been to here, you've been to there, but how many actual sites did you see while you were there? Or was it like you get to the airport, you go to the hotel, you go to the stadium and go back to the hotel and then back to the airport, and then you're gone? Because sometimes you're there just a weekend or whatever."
And he's like, "Most of the times, yeah. We don't see anything at all. We get off the plane. We get on a bus or a van or whatever to go to either the stadium or where we're staying in the hotel. We have all of our team meetings there, and you've got to do this, you got to do that, and you got to practice.
And then, you got to go back to bed and eat and sleep and repeat. So, yeah. It's nice that you get to say you competed in all of these places, but you're there for business. You're not there to sightsee, per se, unless you do have some time off to be able to do that. But you're there for business.
You're there to win a medal, and so you're there for work." So, yeah, a lot of people, they can say they've been to all these luxurious places and they've been to the Olympics. But how much time have you actually gone and been able to see where you are at? Not many times.

Brock Richardson:
And two things come to mind, the more time you have off at international events, two things come to mind. One, you didn't get as deep into the event as you wanted to, and two, you need rest and recovery. If you've got time off and you're done at 12, you're going back and resting and recovering.
So, for me to circle on this whole conversation, you have to know that the professionals want to do this for the love of the game and the love of their country, not necessarily to take away or to steal from. They do it because they love and want to do it for their country. And I think that's the big moment.

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, 100% especially if they've got to go to a place like China or somewhere around the world where their clock is going to be off huge. And they've got to adjust to that time. And then they've got to be able to play the best, I'll say hockey because that's what I'm most interested in when people go to the Olympics, is the professional hockey players. So, they've got to get used to the time change and stuff. And then, when they are done, they've got to go back home.
And how much time do they have off before they can actually join their teams again? And they've got to get used to the time change again. Like I just go on vacation to Dominican or Cuba, and I think that's like an hour or two. And when I get home, the time change messes me up, might be the all-inclusive alcohol too. I'm not going to lie, but I'm going to go with mostly it's the time change.

Brock Richardson:
Of course.

Cam Jenkins:
And it just messes you up so bad.

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. I remember the beds in Beijing. And before we went to Beijing, you were hearing from some of the professional basketball players that were saying, "My goodness, these beds are not very long for me to sleep on." And so, they would be hanging off the end of them. And I remember-

Cam Jenkins:
Seven footers.

Brock Richardson:
I remember thinking, "How small can these beds be?" Let me tell you, those seven-footers were not on much of that bed. I mean, this is not a lavish situation that they were in because again, to your point, and well put, what pays their bills? What pays their bills is the NHL, what pays their bills is the NBA. So, you can't say to a Gregg Popovich, you can't say, "Wow, I need 10 days off because I just spent time at the Olympics." That was a you choice.
I didn't force you as your coach to go there. You chose, now you got to play for your team that you are getting paid to play with. I just think that that's just the way it is. Yeah. I mean, what more can you say other than, yeah, it is what it is.
And I think to close off this chat, the last time we've seen NHL participants at the games was Pyeongchang and they haven't returned since. Do you see a world where they come back or is Gary Bettman too worried about the NHL and not so worried about the Olympic Games?

Cam Jenkins:
Oh, a 100% they're going to come back, but it's going to be in this time zone. Because it's a lot easier on the players and their bodies and the time change if it's back in this time zone or maybe within a couple of hours of this time zone. When you start getting a 12-hour time difference and the games are going to be played in the middle of the night, why is the NHL going to sacrifice your players when a lot of people aren't going to even be watching it? And if they do watch it's just going to be a repeat. It's not going to be during when they actually play.
So, those are just some of the factors that I'm sure Gary Bettman looks at to say, "Why am I going to put the NHL players over here when there's such a huge time difference when a lot of people aren't going to be watching it live? Why am I going to be sacrificing the players of the NHL?"

Brock Richardson:
And it's all about the almighty dollar, and if Gary Bettman or any commissioner has to shut down their league for 12, 14, 15 days, then it's a nightmare on the schedulers and it's a nightmare on people's pocketbooks. And I know that, listen, they're going to say, "Oh, they make millions and millions of dollars," which they do. I'm not disputing that. But also the money lost in those 12 to 14 days to do that shutdown is also within the millions and some billions because revenues say, "Well, we're not going to have any hockey games, so I'm not going to pay my advertising dollars to do that. I'm not going to do that."
So, everybody loses in that moment. And I'm not trying to sit here and say, Cameron, "Oh, we should play the small violin for the NHL and the money they're missing," but I think they're fine.

Cam Jenkins:
I'm playing the small violin.

Brock Richardson:
But it's not just that hard for people to lose that amount of money. They're used to a certain live stream. Salary cap hasn't gone up because of the pandemic. It's supposed to go up a little bit, but not a lot. When the salary cap doesn't go up a lot, that means that you're not able to put as good of a team because people demand money. There's all kinds of reasons why these things happen.

Cam Jenkins:
Health of the athletes, if you have to... and I don't know. I wish I can remember, but when the NHL shuts down for a couple of weeks for the Olympics, do they end up still having an 82 game before?

Brock Richardson:
Yeah. They do.

Cam Jenkins:
Or do they have less? So, they still have an 82 game. So, they're still getting the money, however, they're having to shorten that time period. And that could really hurt the health of the players because if they're playing too much, they might blow out a knee or ankle or who knows what they could blow out if they're playing a lot of games within a shorter period of time too. And I would think, especially for the NHL, everyone thinks that that goes on way too long now because a lot of the times, it's not until June that the Stanley Cup is awarded end of May, beginning of June.
So, June is starting to be summertime. You don't want to be playing in June. You want to be enjoying the sunshine and stuff. But that's going to happen if the Olympics aren't going on. If the Olympics are going on, what are they going to do it, into July? I love hockey, but I don't want to be watching hockey in July.

Brock Richardson:
No, and I think that speaks to the whole point of Jamal Murray of the Denver Nuggets, which we talked about in the headlines, is that that's why, because he's looking at it going, "Guys, I just finished in June." And now the country suffers because he's not willing to risk an injury because the Denver Nuggets pay him far more money than basketball Canada would, even if we're looking at advertising, revenue, dollars, all those things. So, those are the reasons.
And one of the things that just makes me just really cringe every year, it's like when we get to the Stanley Cup final, we have to have seven games in 16 days. Why does it have to stretch out so long? Because they want it to drag on and on and on, which is why it ends up in June. It's like, "No, can we get seven games in 10 days?"

Cam Jenkins:
Fourteen days, or whatever. But Brock, I understand about that because if you have a team that's out east and then a team that's on the west coast, once again, you have the travel time, you have the time difference. I can understand why they make it a day or two off for travelling, so I can understand that.
But if it's two Eastern Conference teams, and I don't even know if that's possible to have the Stanley Cup final that way, but if there are two teams relatively close and there's not a huge time difference or not a big travel day, then I don't understand why they can't get it done in 14 days. Because you could play a game, have a day off, play a game, have a day off. So, if it's going to go the full seven, that would be 14 days, and I'd be okay with that.

Brock Richardson:
It's when they stretch it into like, "Oh, you're travelling..." like the NBA did this, where they'd have instead of a day off, they'd have three days off between a couple. And to me, it's not appropriate. Yeah. You're saving injury. But to me, I don't even think that's the main reason.
I think it's more stretch it out, make it build, et cetera. For me, get it done as soon as possible without injury, playing a factor. I'm not suggesting play seven games in seven nights, but doing it in 14 to 16, sometimes 17 is a bit much. Well, that is the end of our program for this week. I would like to thank Cam Jenkins.
I'd also like to thank Jordan Steves, who is our technical producer. Our regular technical producer is Mark Aflalo. Our podcast coordinator is Ryan Delahanty. Tune in next week because you just never know what happens when you enter The Neutral Zone. Be safe, be well.